Training hold

32andBelow said:

Maybe they should just do something about controllers that have a bunch of deals

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It’s called ATSAP. And it’s worked wonders on safety, youngin’

/s

CaptainObvious said:

Just stop. The people training right now we’re likely already decently far in their training pre COVID. Just another “back in my day I had to sequence a 600 mile long final with nothing over three mile spacing, but we just did it because our skill was so much higher” argument. Whatever makes you feel special I guess.

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If you're implying that N90 gives 3 miles on final, boy are you misinformed

Phillyman2633 said:

If you're implying that N90 gives 3 miles on final, boy are you misinformed

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You’re right, if you do one mile spacing that’s 600 planes you could fit in your sequence

CaptainObvious said:

You’re right, if you do one mile spacing that’s 600 planes you could fit in your sequence

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And if it doesn’t work blame the weak ass tower flower!

CF said:

While this is probably true for some people there are others who have a ceiling and no matter how much time they have to see it get busier they won’t be able to do it. We’ve all seen it, trainees that are fine when it’s normal but when it gets busy they just fall apart. It doesn’t matter how many times they see it.

I’m not saying to stop training or checking people out but there are legitimate concerns.

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Not that just that I have already had people talking about that if they want to move now is the time. Saying traffic is down and it will be easier for you to check out etc. then you have a chance to go to a 10-12 and “build up” to traffic, but let’s all be honest and say that building up doesn’t always work and if you’re that controller that everyone is trying to relieve during busy times...it’s not just because we looove to work traffic it’s because we are still worried when you work busy traffic.
I’m definitely not for not certifying on the traffic you have and hate the we have to wait for busier traffic bs, but I can also understand the concerns

Here4thedrama said:

Not that just that I have already had people talking about that if they want to move now is the time. Saying traffic is down and it will be easier for you to check out etc. then you have a chance to go to a 10-12 and “build up” to traffic, but let’s all be honest and say that building up doesn’t always work and if you’re that controller that everyone is trying to relieve during busy times...it’s not just because we looove to work traffic it’s because we are still worried when you work busy traffic.
I’m definitely not for not certifying on the traffic you have and hate the we have to wait for busier traffic bs, but I can also understand the concerns

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Might as well spin up the NEST then in full flex and give everyone return rights regardless of staffing and stop any movement via ncept or bids. Traffic isn't coming back for years.

COWTOWN said:

Might as well spin up the NEST then in full flex and give everyone return rights regardless of staffing and stop any movement via ncept or bids. Traffic isn't coming back for years.

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They should let all the lower trainees swap with each other

32andBelow said:

They should let all the lower trainees swap with each other

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This!

32andBelow said:

They should let all the lower trainees swap with each other

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why not. Any trainee not in a building right now has to start over on whatever positions they had so why not just start the swaps now. No change of station leave or move money just let them figure it out.

CF said:

why not. Any trainee not in a building right now has to start over on whatever positions they had so why not just start the swaps now. No change of station leave or move money just let them figure it out.

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a lot of them got called in before 120 days and then sent home again. So technically they might not.

CF said:

why not. Any trainee not in a building right now has to start over on whatever positions they had so why not just start the swaps now. No change of station leave or move money just let them figure it out.

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I been at my fac for 2 years and only handoff certs. I’d be ok with almost anywhere else lol

QuebecN said:

I been at my fac for 2 years and only handoff certs. I’d be ok with almost anywhere else lol

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Damn dude. Quit dragging your feet.....

32andBelow said:

They should let all the lower trainees swap with each other

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The FAA doesn’t want to please people even if it was to their benefit by getting more trainees to their desired locations. People would jump on this.

Here4thedrama said:

The FAA doesn’t want to please people even if it was to their benefit by getting more trainees to their desired locations. People would jump on this.

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But it’s such an easy time to let them. You know.

DankVectorz said:

Whose traffic projections? That’s crazy.

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Whoever makes the projections that are used by the FAA leaders. There's two models, both have us getting back to 100% traffic by 2030. Model one is we're back at 80% traffic by 2023 with a slow climb the next seven years. Model two is slow climb the next ten years. (not exact figures, but it was something close to those projections.)
TSA passenger throughput has been fairly stable at around 40% of pre-virus levels last I checked.

Stinger said:

Whoever makes the projections that are used by the FAA leaders. There's two models, both have us getting back to 100% traffic by 2030. Model one is we're back at 80% traffic by 2023 with a slow climb the next seven years. Model two is slow climb the next ten years. (not exact figures, but it was something close to those projections.)
TSA passenger throughput has been fairly stable at around 40% of pre-virus levels last I checked.

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For those people that are pre 9/11 workers, do you think the traffic will ever go completely back? Personally I know several towers that are very close to normal levels, 80%+ but obviously this isn’t the common trend among the NAS.
I’ve heard so many before 9/11 stories about how much busier facilities were, but I never looked at the stats to know if that’s a myth for those places or they never got back up. Literally people are still bitter about how they said they were almost a level up to two prior to 9/11, but they’ve never managed to get enough traffic back I guess.

Here4thedrama said:

For those people that are pre 9/11 workers, do you think the traffic will ever go completely back? Personally I know several towers that are very close to normal levels, 80%+ but obviously this isn’t the common trend among the NAS.
I’ve heard so many before 9/11 stories about how much busier facilities were, but I never looked at the stats to know if that’s a myth for those places or they never got back up. Literally people are still bitter about how they said they were almost a level up to two prior to 9/11, but they’ve never managed to get enough traffic back I guess.

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You can look at atads but yeah a lot of facilities have never gotten even 75% of their pre 9/11 numbers

If the position is traffic isn't coming back for a while then it's also time to accept that lower staffing numbers and downgrades are part of that package.

spider said:

If the position is traffic isn't coming back for a while then it's also time to accept that lower staffing numbers and downgrades are part of that package.

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The problem is, and I asked about this on my local training call, staffing might support current traffic, but training has to resume at some point or we run into the same staffing problems we have now, down the road. At what point does the need for staffing outweigh the dangers of COVID? They had no real answer other than “training will have to resume eventually.”

If there's a government shutdown, does salty still get to say I told you so about furloughs?