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Air Traffic Control Specialist - Trainee: FAA-ATO-16-ALLSRCE-49075 Bid (closed)

Discussion in 'FAA' started by rdyotz, Aug 8, 2016.

  1. rdyotz

    rdyotz Certified

    Air Traffic Control Specialist - Trainee

    Here is the new ALL Source Bid.
    Somethings to note:
    "Prior failure of FAA Academy training or prior declination of permanent facility placement offer after completing Academy training may constitute a basis for non-selection and/or veterans' preference pass over."

    It says may constitute a basis for non-selection, so still apply if you fall in that category.

    "The FAA expects to issue an announcement within the next 60 days for applicants with 52 consecutive weeks of air traffic control involving the full-time active separation of air traffic after receipt of an air traffic certification or air traffic control (ATC) facility rating within 5 years of application for those who served at a FAA air traffic control facility, OR a civilian or military ATC facility, OR a tower operating under contract with the FAA under section 47124. The maximum entry age for applicants under this experience announcement will be age 35."

    So prior experience bid expected within 2 months. Also, still apply to ALL Source Bid even if you are prior experience. You can always give up the All Source offer.

    Other item:
    "If eligible for Pool 1; may elect consideration for Pool 2, but not both."
    WARNING: This hypothetical scenario may not be accurate, it's just one of the things I was thinking about.
    So, CTI/vets may want to consider about going Pool 2. Let's say the FAA hires 2000 people (easy number to work with) on this bid, the two Pools can only vary by 10%. So, between 900-1100 people would be Pool 1. Since there is no BQ for Pool 1, the only way to not be selected to take the ATSA is by failing to provide all required information in your application. So, the vast majority of Pool 1 will move onto the ATSA, which means you will be primarily competing against other Pool 1 individuals on the ATSA. Supposedly 3000 CTI have been waiting for a chance to get in (I can't verify that number), so they are all competing for those 900 guaranteed spots. Then, the last 200 spots will be going up against everyone that takes the ATSA. I think the 2015 bid had around 25,000 applicants, with about 10% passing the BQ. Say 3000 of those are Pool 1 this bid. 3000 people would be trying to get the 900-1100 spots. With Pool 2, 22,000 would take the BQ, with the 10% passing, 2200 would take the ATSA. So, 2200 people going against each other for the 900-1100 spots. Still, getting passed the BQ has lower odds than the 3000 Pool 1 applicants trying to get 900 spots. So, probably still better to go with Pool 1. That was just my hypothetical, and nothing in this should be construed as fact or guaranteed.
  2. MJ

    MJ Administrator Staff Member

    Job Announcement Number:
    Location Name:
    FAA - Air Traffic Locations, United States
    Department Of Transportation
    Federal Aviation Administration
    Occupation Code:
    Pay Plan:
    Appointment Duration:
    Temporary NTE - 13 months
    Opening Date:
    Monday, August 8, 2016
    Closing Date:
    Monday, August 15, 2016
    Job Status:
    Full Time
    $22,888.00 to $28,626.00 / Per Year
    Pay Grade(s):
    1 to 1
    Who May Apply:
    U.S. Citizens
    Job Summary:
    Business Component: Air Traffic Organization - ATO

    View the announcement on USAJOBS
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2016

    STIMULATOR Certified

    "Upon successful completion of the Academy initial training program & other employment requirements, newly hired ATCS's will be offered a permanent appointment at an FAA facility with a basic salary of $38,193, plus applicable locality pay based on facility assignment. Applicants with prior ATC experience will have their salary set in accordance with the ATCS Collective Bargaining Agreement, upon conversion."

    Can anyone provide some insight into what the underlined sentence implies? Is this referring to save pay or another area?
  4. ajmezz

    ajmezz Certified FAA

    FAA Facility:
    ADW Andrews Tower
    In previous bids I believe that was for veterans. Upon completing the academy, they bumped up to the lowest D band instead of AG pay. I know there are people out there who have atc experience having not been military, myself included, so I don't know if that refers to all atc experience or just veterans. It's worth a call to HR if you are worried about it.

    STIMULATOR Certified

    Thanks for the info and clarification. I'm currently active duty and a controller, so I wasn't sure what it meant. I browsed through the CBA but couldn't find where it said anything about it. My plan is to apply to both the OTS and prior-exp bids in hopes of getting picked up before I separate in under a year. If this bid pans out of the prior-experience one then I want to know what to expect pay wise. I have a family and everything to consider.
  6. ajmezz

    ajmezz Certified FAA

    FAA Facility:
    ADW Andrews Tower
    Completely understandable. I would give HR a call just to make sure in that case. This is all info I've seen over the years of other people posting online and haven't experienced it personally.
  7. SugarFoot1

    SugarFoot1 Certified FAA

    FAA Facility:
    LEX Lexington Tower
    Prior exp (not just vets but you must have prior exp regardless of military service) goes to lowest D band upon academy graduation instead of having to get 25% of ratings before a pay raise. If you go to the academy you get that shit pay but if you go straight to a facility from prior exp bid you go to the bottom of the D band

    STIMULATOR Certified

    We can manage making pennies while in the academy if that's the route I have to go. So long as when I get to my fac I get the higher D-pay, it would be nearly the same as getting picked up under the prior experience bid.

    STIMULATOR Certified

    I'll give them a call just to make sure and hopefully they can point me to a reg for when, not if, I get screwed over down the road.
  10. MJ

    MJ Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Aug 9, 2016

    STIMULATOR Certified

    Thank you, sir. I overlooked it in that section. That makes my decision to try for the OTS bid easier.
  12. MJ

    MJ Administrator Staff Member

    New tidbit


    STIMULATOR Certified

    Isn't that nearly the amount of people they planned on hiring this year? That only leaves like 300-400 slots for prior experienced guys.
  14. rdyotz

    rdyotz Certified

    Last thing I saw was the hiring numbers was around 1800, so that would leave around 400 spots for prior experience. The last projected hiring showed 309 projected direct hires between Aug 2016-Aug 2017. Although who knows, it is possible the FAA adds more spots later on, as they probably don't have too good of an idea how the age 36 is going to change the applicant pool.

    STIMULATOR Certified

    That's around the number that I saw in some spreadsheet. I'm sure the applicant pool for prior experience is going to grow exponentially given the increased age. Everyone I know that is still in or recently separated that is over the original age is going to apply. It's their chance at the "dream".
  16. echster

    echster Certified

    I would just caution against directly tying the numbers hired to any specific fiscal year. In other words, just because a bid comes out in one fiscal year does not necessarily mean folks will be hired in that fiscal year. As it relates to the FAA, there often appears to be no rhyme or reason. So, while the FAA is looking to hire ~1,900 controllers in both FYs 2017-2018, we do not know how many folks are already in the pre-employment pipeline from earlier fiscal years.

    For example, there are plenty of folks who applied under the December 2015 experienced bid that will not be in facilities until well after FY 2017 begins (1 October 2016). Heck, there are those still awaiting medical exams/clearances/Tier 2. Also, look at the folks from the 2014 OTS bid that don't even have class dates until FY 2017.

    It is also important to note that HR 5292 mandates that the FAA "shall give preferential consideration to" experienced controllers before considering those Pool 1 and Pool 2 applicants. When you add in the bill's age limit increase, I'm not sure the FAA could accurately guess how many of those folks plan to leave active duty/DoD/contract towers for a chance at the FAA. The word I heard - related to the December 2015 bid - had somewhere between 900-1,000 experienced controllers apply for which the FAA only accepted ~300. So add in those 1) not earlier accepted for the December 2015 bid to those 2) that weren't eligible ~10 months ago because they had years of active duty service remaining to those 3) that were over 31 years old but are now under 36 years old to those 4) that are now disillusioned by the BS they have to put up with and decide military life isn't worth it, and I hazard to guess there will be ~1,200-1,500 experienced applicants when that bid is announced in a few weeks. That means if the FAA has to provide preferential consideration to those folks that are eligible, many from the recent OTS bid (the tidbit expected 800 enroute, 600 terminal hires) may slip well into FYs 2018-2019.
    ajmezz likes this.

    STIMULATOR Certified

    I was browsing around on SM and noticed that people are starting to get status updates in AVIATOR and another thread had the number of those that applied and also how many passed the BA. Can anyone here confirm that either of those two threads/updates are correct? I checked over on AVIATOR and mine still has the green check mark and an update that a "referral list has not been established".

    On a separate note, does anyone have any insight into the AT-SA that we all have to take on this bid? It's the next hurdle in the hiring process and would like to get an idea of what to expect.
  18. MJ

    MJ Administrator Staff Member

    My application status was updated. I can also confirm that selecting A for every answer on the BQ is not a valid method to pass.

    Haven't seen anything at all regarding the atsa. I wouldn't expect it to be materially different from the at sat, but that's speculation on my part.

    STIMULATOR Certified

    I thought you were already a FAA controller? If not, we now know all-As are not valid.

    I've read mixed reviews on it, ranging from it being comparable to it's the spawn of Satan.
  20. AO0530

    AO0530 Certified

    Green check on my end CTI, I'm curious to see how all this plays out.

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