Clearance Limit and Holding Fixes

[MagioX1]

Can someone explain to me what the difference between a clearance limit and a holding fix is? The definitions seem to mean the same thing.

 

[the inquirer]

Can someone explain to me what the difference between a clearance limit and a fix is? The definitions seem to mean the same thing.

Are you a controller? If so, why the question and what’s the context?

 

[MagioX1]

I dont want to give the context for reasons....

Really just looking for the technical differences between the two.

 

[eltors0]

A fix is a point in space. this includes wayponts, navaid locations, navaid fix/radial/distances, or airports. A clearance limit is the point in space expressed by a fix where the aircraft may only progress up to the fix specified in the limit until having to hold at said fix and await further clearance to progress on the flight plan route or be issued an approach clearance.

 

[wand_waver]

Clearance limit: a point to where an aircraft is cleared to (ex. airport, VOR, fix)
Fix: A point in space defined by 5 letters

Clearance limit is like a verb (cleared TO) where a fix is an adjective (like some GPS fix). Idk if that’s helpful or more confusing

 

[CaptainObvious]

What’s confusing? Clearance limit is pretty self explanatory. A clearance to a fix isn’t a clearance limit, like if I say cleared direct XYZ it’s just proceed that fix then flight plan routing.

 

[MagioX1]

Ok correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I think yall are saying. A clearance limit is as far as you can procede until further clearance is given. A fix on the other hand may be the particular point of a clearance limit. Is that correct?

 

[eltors0]

Ok correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I think yall are saying. A clearance limit is as far as you can procede until further clearance is given. A fix on the other hand may be the particular point of a clearance limit. Is that correct?

Ok, time to break it down barney style. Think of using a GPS to get to work. You put in the address of your place of work. If you were to plot the turns it takes to get to work, imagine those to be fixes. Your current position is a fix as well. Your work is a fix as well. The limit you set in your GPS is your clearance limit which is work in this case. If you decide to you wanted to stop to get a coffee that would be beyond your exit from work, your GPS doesn't account for that until you punch in the new address.

 

[gpow09]

Fixes are mile markers on a highway. Clearance limit means you can go past mile marker 107 for example. Very bad if you do

 

[MagioX1]

Guys I revised the title. Sorry. I meant holding fixes.

 

[Termine]

As I understand it when an aircraft is on an IFR flight plan where the clearance limit is an airport, and they're assigned a hold for delays (due to weather or whatever), the holding fix becomes their new clearance limit and they can't proceed beyond it until they get a new clearance (cleared to ABC airport via depart FIXXX heading...)—see 4–6–1 and chapter 4–6 generally for more information.

Though I'm not sure if that's actually how it works any more. Reading between the lines, and from seeing old geezers reminiscing online, in the olden days it might have been more common for a flight to only be cleared to a specific VOR from the get-go and only get their clearance to the airport when they got near it. These days with ground delay programs and such the clearance limit is almost always the airport unless they're taken off that clearance for holding, so 4–6–2 doesn't apply as often. From what I understand.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

Generally the clearance limit is the destination airport. Let’s say a line of thunderstorms shuts down your destination, and you have to hold as a result. If ATC gives you a holding clearance with an EFC, they’re changing your clearance limit. You can’t proceed past ABCDE and continue to the destination until you’re given further clearance to do so.

 

[wrench978]

to try to answer your new question, a holding fix will become your clearance limit when a hold is issued. the only exception I can think of (im sure there are more) would be a Hold In Lieu of Procedure Turn, where you enter a hold but your clearance limit is still the airport.


You can have published holding fixes, where the controller only needs to issue "cleared to (indicates a new clearance limit) SAALR intersection (holding fix), Hold Northwest as published"

or Fix/Radial/Distances where the controller builds the hold

"Cleared to the San Juan 320 radial, 40 mile fix, Hold Northwest, 10 mile legs"

 

[MagioX1]

Thank you guys for the answers. I understand it now?

 

[CaptainObvious]

Answer the question and get downvoted. Just as bad as Reddit