Grieving training delays

ATC_av8er

Trusted Contributor
Messages
106
So here's the story. I work at an up/down. I certified in the tower over 2 months ago and to possibly expect an RTF date in January. Fast forward to now and I have not heard a peep since the day I certified. I talked directly to my supe who told me he would talk to the ATM. ATM tells me supe did tell him. That was a few weeks ago. I'm working with FacRep to expedite things but so far nothing. Is this something I can grieve? I am literally the only person at the facility who needs RTF right now. I was going to make the argument that they are unnecessarily delaying my training and therefore prevents me from collecting my full salary.
 

PushingTin

Forum Sage
Messages
489
Is this something I can grieve? I am literally the only person at the facility who needs RTF right now. I was going to make the argument that they are unnecessarily delaying my training and therefore prevents me from collecting my full salary.

You can literally grieve anything you want. A grievance is at its core a "complaint". Some might argue that just by virtue of putting it on paper and "forcing them to address it / escalate it", is a win; but I disagree. I think that although you truly may be wrongly being held back, it's not something that you are likely to win. However you would define a win. There is 0 chance they will just capitulate and say oh ok sorry bro we will send you to next available class ASAP! It is far more likely that that pisses them off and through seen or unseen ways, they retaliate against you for it. No one likes to be shown up, especially not by a trainee. So as well intentioned and RIGHT as you may be, I say this would be a foolish grievance that is likely to do more harm than good for your career. You can certainly grieve it and argue whatever you want though. NATCA is not gonna take it abovelLevel 2 and it will die on the proverbial vine.

3097
 

Spoony90

Trusted Contributor
Messages
78
There’s people in my facility who waited over a year and they haven’t even started radar training and are stuck in limbo. You’re complaining over 2 months?
 

Rodsmash

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
69
Facility
ZJX Jacksonville Center
11 months for some people here. I would kill a man do something dubious for a two month wait.
 
Last edited:

CaptainObvious

Forum Sage
Messages
718
Does OKC have spots in RTF? Is the delay on your end or are the classes full. I waited 5 months for an RTF date, and 7 months for a stage 4 class at the center. Suck it up and wait. It’s not a “training delay”, just the nature of the training process
 

penaltyvectors

Trusted Contributor
Messages
33
Does OKC have spots in RTF? Is the delay on your end or are the classes full. I waited 5 months for an RTF date, and 7 months for a stage 4 class at the center. Suck it up and wait. It’s not a “training delay”, just the nature of the training process
Where would you draw the line between a training delay and just part of the process? At my facility we have several guys still making AG pay who just passed their one year anniversary of arriving to the facility, and their radar class date is still at least 15 months away. At what point does it stop being just the way things are done and turn into something grievable?
 

estup24

Member
FAA
Messages
17
Facility
PBI Palm Beach Tower
I
So here's the story. I work at an up/down. I certified in the tower over 2 months ago and to possibly expect an RTF date in January. Fast forward to now and I have not heard a peep since the day I certified. I talked directly to my supe who told me he would talk to the ATM. ATM tells me supe did tell him. That was a few weeks ago. I'm working with FacRep to expedite things but so far nothing. Is this something I can grieve? I am literally the only person at the facility who needs RTF right now. I was going to make the argument that they are unnecessarily delaying my training and therefore prevents me from collecting my full salary.
I waited 8 months, relax....
 

JNev

Forum Sage
FAA
Messages
372
Facility
MRY Monterey Tower
I really love the FAA-ingrained mindset of “I have it bad, so you shouldn’t complain if you have it bad too!”

How about everyone should try and make their own situation as best as possible regardless of how awful other’s are?

After I checked out on ground management was being lazy and didn’t even try to get a Simulator date until 6 weeks after. Ended up being over 4 months of just being certified on ground and couldn’t train on local. Upon voicing frustration to a coworker who washed at ZNY, I was told how incredibly lucky I was to only have to wait such a short time. In reality the two situations are wholly independent and I can still be upset at the lack of foresight and laziness of local management. Just because ZNY training is way worse doesn’t mean what’s going on here should be acceptable
 
Last edited:

spider

Trusted Contributor
Messages
87
I really love the FAA-ingrained mindset of “I have it bad, so you shouldn’t complain if you have it bad too!”

How about everyone should try and make their own situation as best as possible regardless of how awful other’s are?

After I checked out on ground management was being lazy and didn’t even try to get a Simulator date until 6 weeks after. Ended up being over 4 months of just being certified on ground and couldn’t train on local. Upon voicing frustration to a coworker who washed at ZNY, I was told how incredibly lucky I was to only have to wait such a short time. In reality the two situations are wholly independent and I can still be upset at the lack of foresight and laziness of local management. Just because ZNY training is way worse doesn’t mean what’s going on here should be acceptable
The point is that he has zero chance of a successful grievance when literally hundreds are still waiting for much longer than he has. I mean, the complaint is literally 2 months.

Maybe just work his positions that he is certified on? You just can’t win. If someone starts to suck later on then the first thing they complain about was lack of seasoning time.
 

RavenYZF-R6

Forum Sage
Messages
609
I heard that a good trainee at ZDV had their training suspended because they weren’t able to meet the new requirements for hours of training. So now they are in limbo instead of getting at least some training time. Rough stuff.
 

Ad1234

Member
Messages
28
this is a double edge sword, you hear a lot of more people need to be hired, but then we get them to RTF fast enough or at least in a reasonable amount of time, some facilities call and request an RTF before people certify assuming they will certify by X date because of pressure from the union or that's management's technique, and some facilities are told they cannot do that so when a person certifies and they request a date its months away because leading up to the date its filled with people from facilities who aren't even checked out yet causing a backlog or potentially empty seats because they cant fill them on such short notice.

this isn't something that will change with a grievance by one person because at every level in both management and union everyone thinks differently and its allowed to be different at every facility.

the wait sucks, I don't think anyone will disagree. but if you actually get a January date, 4 months isn't the worst thing. the biggest problem in my opinion, is that why doesn't he have a date? I find it hard to believe that your local management has not inquired about getting you a date, if that's the case that's completely screwed up, and filing a grievance will just get them to change their behavior in the future and youll ultimately get nothing. But if local management called and cant get a date for you, why not? what is being told to them? How hard is it to have a conversation with the FACREP and the employee stating what is being told to local management about the hold up. I bet you its out of the building. if I had to guess, because I don't believe local management wouldn't at a minimum make the request. not telling you they want you to season is something I believe management would do.

I think they only have so many dates that have actually been scheduled and have not scheduled anything further because of another potential shutdown. and aren't in a hurry to schedule beyond that, or are trying to catch up from the shut down earlier this year.
 

Phillyman2633

Forum Sage
Messages
215
Suck it up and wait. It’s not a “training delay”, just the nature of the training process
Did you help my ATM write his Step 2 response? Lmao

SUCK IT UP TRAINEE SCUM! AT LEAST IT WAS ONLY 7 MONTHS! OL' PATCO PETE OVER THERE WAITED DARN NEAR 2 YEARS FOR HIS D1!

WHAT FLAVOR KOOL-AID IS YOUR FAVORITE? EVERY DAY IS A TRAINING DAY!

I agree that 2 months isn't really that long, but any time I've ever heard someone bitch about training time, there's always some oldhead lurking around the corner who excitedly turns it into a dick-measuring contest about who had the longest delay. Yes, your 7 months is more than 2 months, but that doesnt make anyone else's gripes less valid.

3100
 
Last edited:

ATC_av8er

Trusted Contributor
Messages
106
Standard wait around here in the recent past has been around 2-3 months. Yes, I am aware 2 months isn't that long, and I honestly don't care what my date is, but I would like to have an idea so I can plan my leave and other life events around that date. I'm just frustrated since I've been told over and over "oh we're working on it be patient" and have not heard any sort of update as to when or why there might be a delay.
 

CaptainObvious

Forum Sage
Messages
718
Did you help my ATM write his Step 2 response? Lmao

SUCK IT UP TRAINEE SCUM! AT LEAST IT WAS ONLY 7 MONTHS! OL' PATCO PETE OVER THERE WAITED DARN NEAR 2 YEARS FOR HIS D1!

WHAT FLAVOR KOOL-AID IS YOUR FAVORITE? EVERY DAY IS A TRAINING DAY!

I agree that 2 months isn't really that long, but any time I've ever heard someone bitch about training time, there's always some oldhead lurking around the corner who excitedly turns it into a dick-measuring contest about who had the longest delay. Yes, your 7 months is more than 2 months, but that doesnt make anyone else's gripes less valid.

View attachment 3100
Yo cool your jets hondo. Any delay I’m the process sucks. That is true. But filing a grievance that will have no positive effect won’t do anything other than potentially create a retaliatory environment. Life is so much easier if you just chill and relax.
 

Phillyman2633

Forum Sage
Messages
215
Yo cool your jets hondo. Any delay I’m the process sucks. That is true. But filing a grievance that will have no positive effect won’t do anything other than potentially create a retaliatory environment. Life is so much easier if you just chill and relax.
I agree, I wouldn't file a grievance either. Just hate the "Well my training took XYZ," I got that alot during training. I think OPs main argument was less that he had to wait 2 months and more the lack of transparency and communication from his rep and ATM, which is what happened to me also...your concerns fall on deaf ears and they make you out to be a whiny bitch when you really just want a couple of easy answers. I wouldnt mind waiting 2 or 3 or 4 months for an RTF date if someone just came out and said "They're slammed at the MMAC right now, we should be able to get you a date in January, I'll check back in with you in 2 weeks."
 
Top