paralell runways ; missed approach; departures

JasW

Lurker
Messages
2
5−8−5. DEPARTURES AND ARRIVALS ON
PARALLEL OR NONINTERSECTING
DIVERGING RUNWAYS
TERMINAL. Authorize simultaneous operations between an aircraft departing on a runway and an aircraft on final approach to another parallel or nonintersecting diverging runway if the departure course diverges immediately by at least 30 degrees
from the missed approach course until separation is applied and provided one of the following conditions are met:....

Here states: ' appraoch to another... runway.... depature course diverge.... by at least 30 degrees. ' so A/C ONE takes off from runway 28L with runway heading of 310 . A/C B is on final approach for 28R and the missed appraoch course for 28R is designed to right turn heading 360. The distance between two runways is more than 2500ft. Can I authorize simultaneous dep and arr under that scenario ?
 

Stinger

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
1,134
5−8−5. DEPARTURES AND ARRIVALS ON
PARALLEL OR NONINTERSECTING
DIVERGING RUNWAYS
TERMINAL. Authorize simultaneous operations between an aircraft departing on a runway and an aircraft on final approach to another parallel or nonintersecting diverging runway if the departure course diverges immediately by at least 30 degrees
from the missed approach course until separation is applied and provided one of the following conditions are met:....

Here states: ' appraoch to another... runway.... depature course diverge.... by at least 30 degrees. ' so A/C ONE takes off from runway 28L with runway heading of 310 . A/C B is on final approach for 28R and the missed appraoch course for 28R is designed to right turn heading 360. The distance between two runways is more than 2500ft. Can I authorize simultaneous dep and arr under that scenario ?
If applying visual separation, yes.
If visual separation isn't an option, then no.

EDIT: Don't really have enough information I think...but it boils down to the "immediately diverge by 30 degrees"...I don't see how your example can meet that requirement.
 
Last edited:

Maintainvfr

Forum Sage
Messages
322
Yeah we'd need more information. Is the departure procedure for 28L an immediate right turn? Obviously 310 isn't the runway heading, so is it a climbing right turn, a runway heading climb to 800ft then right turn etc.
 

JasW

Lurker
Messages
2
Yeah we'd need more information. Is the departure procedure for 28L an immediate right turn? Obviously 310 isn't the runway heading, so is it a climbing right turn, a runway heading climb to 800ft then right turn etc.
It's a runway heading up to 500ft then right turn 310.

If applying visual separation, yes.
If visual separation isn't an option, then no.

EDIT: Don't really have enough information I think...but it boils down to the "immediately diverge by 30 degrees"...I don't see how your example can meet that requirement.
there's no definition on ''immediately'' here... but in 5−8−3. SUCCESSIVE OR SIMULTANEOUS DEPARTURES Note 1…
“Immediately after departure” is considered to beany turn that provides at least 15degrees of divergence that commences no later than 2 miles from the DER. does this mean as long as it gets 15 degrees divergence within 2 miles form the DER, it meets the requirement of ''immediately''. But here how is it considered as 'immediately by 30 degrees ''?
 

Foogy

Forum Sage
Messages
581
We do simultaneous with parallels 700ft centerline to centerline, our missed approach on one end is pretty much the same as the SIDs, so separation is applied through tower visual and if a squeeze goes south everyone has their own technique to pull them apart. Departing to north we have about 30° to play with, more if you're willing to explain yourself.

Apply tower visual, maybe even pilot visual if you're anxious, and you can easily do them.
 

Stinger

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
1,134
It's a runway heading up to 500ft then right turn 310.


there's no definition on ''immediately'' here... but in 5−8−3. SUCCESSIVE OR SIMULTANEOUS DEPARTURES Note 1…
“Immediately after departure” is considered to beany turn that provides at least 15degrees of divergence that commences no later than 2 miles from the DER. does this mean as long as it gets 15 degrees divergence within 2 miles form the DER, it meets the requirement of ''immediately''. But here how is it considered as 'immediately by 30 degrees ''?
Just take it at the simplest possible without digging too deep into it...does the trailing aircraft immediately diverge from the lead when the trailer starts their turn? If yes...that's immediate divergence. If no, then it can't be immediate divergence. In your case, you've got 30 degrees to turn before the courses can start to diverge.
 

Maintainvfr

Forum Sage
Messages
322
It's a runway heading up to 500ft then right turn 310.


there's no definition on ''immediately'' here... but in 5−8−3. SUCCESSIVE OR SIMULTANEOUS DEPARTURES Note 1…
“Immediately after departure” is considered to beany turn that provides at least 15degrees of divergence that commences no later than 2 miles from the DER. does this mean as long as it gets 15 degrees divergence within 2 miles form the DER, it meets the requirement of ''immediately''. But here how is it considered as 'immediately by 30 degrees ''?
If the missed approach calls for an immediate turn to 360, it sounds legal to me.

That being said, "do what your career can handle." If I was in training I wouldn't do it. I think a lot of us cheat a little bit when there's grey areas that we can defend it with, but I'm also on team "can I defend this in court" so use your best judgement
 

MJ

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,166
This is my first time using this program so ignore the crudeness.
As soon as the aircraft on 28L begins to turn if the aircraft on 28R is on a heading anywhere in the red there must be some other form of separation.
 
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