How realistic is it to try to start training by filing a grievance? Maybe we could train with masks, or prove that we’re vaccinated. Or get functional training approved because training with 6ft social distance is approved. Just looking for insight from people that maybe have actually gotten things accomplished with grievances. I’m willing to try anything at this point. Arrived at my center dec 2016 and have no D sides
Realistic grievance
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You been on AG pay for 5 years?
FightingIrish2012
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Just about nobody has gotten anything accomplished with a grievance since 2016 when you started with the agency. Grievances, if they are filed (they are strongly discouraged by the union and FAA), are resolved now at the first or second level, which is within the facility level. There has not been one that has gone to arbitration, or even PAR (pre-arbitration review), in years. This is a byproduct result of the collaborative era. FAA and NATCA work together on all projects and processes, then in turn work together work to crush any challenges to the projects, processes or ideas, and they both own the process in place.
It sucks but the way it is, as the years go by you will notice more and more that you (or anyone else) has no say in. The contract was just extended for 6 years without a vote or any feedback from the general BUEs for example, and an entire NATCA E-Board was sworn in for three years, also without one vote.
Mike Kilo
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The eboard election was uncontested except for one region in the southeast so you can’t count that against them. That’s the BUEs fault for not having a contender step up (wouldn’t have mattered lol). I agree about the contract extension 100%.
32andBelow
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Lack of Union participation is a symptom of a non functioning union
jdatc
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Seems like a record. In the meantime did you get anything else, like ZNY where you get the pit and get some raises or whatever? Or did you go to a center with non radar / Oceans 22, Atops whatever and get that?
Or are you suffering at AG? You didn’t lose your medical or anything either, right?
This seems pretty crazy, but without all the particulars, I’m not completely inclined to make a snap judgement and you seem like you are being a little careful to avoid being identified…
But hey, you made it past probation and you get at least 6 hours leave per pay period-
Yes, I did go somewhere like that haha so no, I am not sitting on AG pay thankfully, but I wasn’t looking for a soapbox just some insight into something I have never needed to consider before!
Phillytroll69
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Here's the thing-there are so many cpc issues and blah blah training is on the back burner. Few enjoy training, even with the best trainees.
Your best bet is to hardship. Your what 1/5 of your career done? This is hosing the high 3, hosing all those June raises, etc.
Problem is nobody cares-at the end of the day I'm more concerned about how to move to a higher level facility.
You'd have to start some training association or sub unit of the union.
If EVERY trainee wrote, emailed, and called their congresspeople you'd be training in no time. Why can you sit next to each other in the break room but not the cab, or ok in the cab but just not train?
A grievance is a target on your back so make sure it's worth it
Your best bet is to hardship. Your what 1/5 of your career done? This is hosing the high 3, hosing all those June raises, etc.
Problem is nobody cares-at the end of the day I'm more concerned about how to move to a higher level facility.
You'd have to start some training association or sub unit of the union.
If EVERY trainee wrote, emailed, and called their congresspeople you'd be training in no time. Why can you sit next to each other in the break room but not the cab, or ok in the cab but just not train?
A grievance is a target on your back so make sure it's worth it
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This.. not really enough info to make a recommendation. There really isn’t much in the contract to grieve based on training since it gives the FAA a wide berth to conduct training as it sees fit.
The only thing I can think of would be if you’re unfairly being targeting for delays when others in your situation have already started and are moving through the program.
Peter Gibbons
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The other thing is what exactly do you ask for to make you whole, besides cold hard cash? Could you grieve for a transfer to another facility? I'd almost take a fresh start in a not forever training program and cut my loses over the lost wages and not being able to do anything about the lost future earnings.
I'm in a similar boat as a CPC-IT, in a facility I ERRd to and I don't have a single viable hardship excuse, and I actually have a reasonable shot at a grievance due to how some things shook out here I think.
I'm in a similar boat as a CPC-IT, in a facility I ERRd to and I don't have a single viable hardship excuse, and I actually have a reasonable shot at a grievance due to how some things shook out here I think.
Dang, and I thought it was just my crappy region. So grievances are useless now
jdatc
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How long did it take you to go from Academy grad to a higher D level?
I will assume then you are actually at D3, and stuck waiting for a D side class and working in an atops/ocean 21 area in a certain center. That kind of backlog thing unfortunately has been happening for sometime as I understand it in areas of centers where you actually have to go to 3 classes, D, R and atops. Covid probably delayed everything even more.
Of course, now it could get worse and you wash out in D or R school, or further training on the floor so you literally would have been in the agency for over 5/6 years without ever being a CPC. I've met people like that.
On the bright side, a trained chimpanzee can work ocean21 / atops, and getting D3 to work that is a scam and a half.
So at least those people weren't super poor while they were getting screwed.
Make no mistake.. grievances have, in just about every union (aside from the true trades unions), become nothing more than bargaining chips during the next contract ratification period. I am currently in one of the largest (starts with U and ends in a cough*AW*cough) and even when I had issues that were blatantly outside the contract parameters, the best my local union leadership could do reference my grievance was get it to our international rep who would then come back and say it was being used as a chip for contract negotiations. (By blatantly I mean the contract explicitly stated you cannot do this, the company did it, and it never saw a pre arbitration board). I am just dipping my toes into the NATCA realm and from what I have seen and heard, I can say with almost impervious certainty, if you expect to utilize your unions traditional means of change or rectification, be prepared to be sorely disappointed. The one recommendation I would have to you is talk it over with your local rep and see what he/she thinks. They may have avenues other than the traditional that would work better to get what you need/want.
Phillyman2633
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I filed a grievance for training the day after I certified because I had 4 documented and very specific violations of the 3210 where I went months without skills checks/training. I got laughed out of the ATM's office, who made a very thinly veiled threat to decertify me. The PAR rep for my region emailed me and told me that, while I had one of the most well-written and theoretically ironclad grievances he had ever seen, the grievance was being dropped at the PAR level because my FacRep at the time was a piece of shit who refused to stand behind it and then-RVP Rich Santa, also a piece of shit, would not purse further action.
Your concerns have been duly noted and your grievance will serve as very coarse toilet paper for some calloused agency buttholes.
Collaborate me harder, daddy.
Your concerns have been duly noted and your grievance will serve as very coarse toilet paper for some calloused agency buttholes.
Collaborate me harder, daddy.
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Nobody will ever get a training grievance approved. That’s just the way it is. I feel for everyone who was held back, in your case, violations of the 3210. It’s just a shit show
Phillyman2633
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The Freemasons will Lee Harvey Oswald ur ass
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Make Grievances Great Again
Forgive my ignorance but how could a training issue be grievable? Isn't a grievance saying "You, the employer, failed to abide by the collective bargaining agreement"? So you could file a grievance saying "I came to work wearing a NATCA pin and my supe made me take it off"—that would be a violation of Article 69. But you can't file a grievance saying "I was supposed to have a skills check per the 3210 and I didn't get one" because there's no contract article saying that the Agency has to follow its own training order.
Peter Gibbons
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It's always gonna be a tough one I think, since training is at the agency's discretion but if it was particularly aggregious and violated the fair and equitable manner part you may have something.
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