Long story short my facrep and I are currently in a posting match over training, 3 minutes to type a -25 and say get better isn't good training, "look it up" isnt good training, a level 5 shouldn't be in the 19th percentile for passing etc etc for my fac. Anyone else dealing with the same crap and have solutions or just want to rant?
Training Rants and Help
- Thread starter Shikaka
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squawkIFR
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You’re mad because your trainer told you to look something up?
Not at all, though when that's the go to answer for every question posed to a trainer by their trainee, they shouldn't be getting the extra 10%.
Do you think it's an adequate response to a developmental that most likely has zero ATC experience and is grasping at straws?
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Actually, in a way, yes. Are you exaggerating at all by saying that's your trainers answer to every question? If you are asking basic Q's about LOA's and SOP's then those answers are stuff you should know. As far as the .65 stuff, I think there should be a balance of him explain and showing you the answers and you looking them up yourself. Trainers mentalities towards training vary depending on the person. I know some trainers with decades in the game that make their trainee write up their own sheet. I know some like yours that want you to look up your own answers so you're familiar with where to find answers in the book. If its technique stuff then he should be explaining it to you for sure.
squawkIFR
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Well maybe if you look up the question in whatever applicable reg and show the effort and bring that reg to your trainer and have him explain it. That might be what he wants out of you. Or he’s a piece of shit idk.
If one of my trainees asked me a question that was very clearly spelled out in a reg and was too lazy to look it up themselves then I’ll give them equal effort that they put into it.
squawkIFR FoggyWindow
Of course there are variations in trainers, as far as basic information goes that's a given as well. My issue isnt with any single trainer per se, it's with the FAA training program as a whole which provides no actual structure for a developmental in regards to training.
Of course there is a syllabus, LOAs, SOPs etc etc etc. Though last person we washed had the basic issue of knowing the book, understanding the rules, and he washed because when he would ask how to implement them...he'd be told to look it up.
Not for me, already CPC, just disgruntled at the sorry excuse for training.
Of course there are variations in trainers, as far as basic information goes that's a given as well. My issue isnt with any single trainer per se, it's with the FAA training program as a whole which provides no actual structure for a developmental in regards to training.
Of course there is a syllabus, LOAs, SOPs etc etc etc. Though last person we washed had the basic issue of knowing the book, understanding the rules, and he washed because when he would ask how to implement them...he'd be told to look it up.
Not for me, already CPC, just disgruntled at the sorry excuse for training.
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Well, it sounds like a culture issue to me. You can help that by being a better trainer. Although honestly, if people wash at a level 5 tower, then ATC might not be a career for them anyway.
Stinger
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It's all situational. Some procedures are spelled out very black and white, and different trainers say it's stupid or that it should be done another way. Asking the question during training is sometimes needed.
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You are never wrong if you abide by the LOA's and SOP. You can't teach technique as law, regardless of how you feel about an LOA or SOP. We have a ton of stuff in ours that a lot of us disagree on or basically ignore as a whole, but we do so knowing if anything happened that its on us. At a TRB they cannot wash him on abiding by it. There's nothing situational about violating written rules.
FightingIrish2012
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While trainees should not be lazy, your Fac Rep seems like a dick, a lot of the ones at the level fives are. The facility is so small they see themselves as a co-king or second ATM. New hires are always too intimidated to challenge them and they are usually old dinosaurs who think they are entitled to absolute ruling power (though that generation is finally phasing out).
32andBelow
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Vote. Them. Out.
Dontbotherme
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Debrief after each session and document on individual forms. I look up the references myself, show them to the trainee, and document appropriately. It is part of our occupational duties and people should take pride in trying to train someone. It sucks we don’t get 10% extra, during a pre/post brief, but whatever. I’ve spent many of breaks looking up things or watching replays so that I could maximize time explaining it to a trainee during our briefing. If you’re seeing the same deficiencies, that’s something you should be documenting/voicing with the training team as far as a trainee needing SET. You should be receiving support from your Facility Representative for doing things the correct way and trying to help a BUE not shortchanging them.
Phillyman2633
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When I train, if I'm writing something down on a training report that is from the .65/SOP/LOA etc I always whip out....the book and write down the applicable reference. Keeps me in the book as well as the trainee and that's what the "Reference" column on the -25 is for that .001% of people actually use. If you're telling someone "Look it up," without actually pulling it out and referencing it yourself (unless it's a recurrent issue you've already addressed with the trainee) then you're a trash trainer.
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