N90 forced move

BCHOOSIER said:
Do you think drastically decreasing a controller's wages for the entirety of the controller's career wouldn't result in a controller feeling they have no other option other than to move. You go to a facility that you want to be at and think you can some day earn the top of the pay band and be happy. A few years later you check out, buy a house, put your kids in school, make friends, and your spouse gets a job they love. Then your facility gets consolidated. Then it gets downgraded, not once but twice. Hell, a few years later maybe it would get downgraded again for a third time. That salary you thought you would eventually be happy with will never happen. The high three you thought you would have in retirement, won't be there. Raises for your career will be halted and a hope for a better financial future for your family disappears. So the only option you're left with to avoid all of this is to transfer to somewhere else. You have to move your family away from their friends, schools, jobs. You have to buy a smaller house for for more money. You have to go back through training. Does any of this sound familiar?
Let's play a game, out of the three options below which one doesn't adversely effect a controller and his family?
Option 1: Don't move, earn less money for the rest of your career, work longer, and have your family sacrifice somethings throughout your career.
Option 2: Permanently move your family even if you like where you are to ensure your current financial future. Receive no money from the Agency for the move or your troubles.
Option 3: Forced to move less than 3 hours away for no longer than two years but can return to your current location if you want to. No loss in wages. You get $100,000 and per diem everyday you're away.

All three options suck and shouldn't happen to controllers. I guess the difference between you and I is I see how the Agency and NATCA can "forcefully" shit on controllers in all consolidation where as for you, you only think Option 3 gets wronged.
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All other consolidations: section 804 process is followed, long process with input from the actual facility. Some people don't want to leave and get screwed, but many people do want it to happen and are excited. Many get a substantial raise to go to the new combined facility, many others get an opportunity to err wherever they want. Those that get screwed are in the minority. Both the agency and natca are on board, agree that the move is an overall benefit.

This current thing: no process followed, no input from facility. Those getting forced are in the vast majority. The local is vocal that it's a terrible idea.

Also, when my last facility got downgraded like ten years ago, we got save pay. Is that not the case anymore?

Either way the main point is up to this point every consolidation has had the support of most of the affected parties. Every single decision or topic ever is going to have some people unhappy. Literally every one, read these forums or listen to discussions on any topic at your facility. You should try to do what's best for the majority. This is the first one where the move is so bad that the agency doesn't have enough volunteers. Yes I feel bad for the people negatively affected by everything the agency has done but up until now to my knowledge the consolidations have had more controllers on board than against it

Have any of these other consolidations were talking about ever had employees forced to move or no
 
Deuce said:
All other consolidations: section 804 process is followed, long process with input from the actual facility. Some people don't want to leave and get screwed, but many people do want it to happen and are excited. Many get a substantial raise to go to the new combined facility, many others get an opportunity to err wherever they want. Those that get screwed are in the minority. Both the agency and natca are on board, agree that the move is an overall benefit.

This current thing: no process followed, no input from facility. Those getting forced are in the vast majority. The local is vocal that it's a terrible idea.

Also, when my last facility got downgraded like ten years ago, we got save pay. Is that not the case anymore?

Either way the main point is up to this point every consolidation has had the support of most of the affected parties. Every single decision or topic ever is going to have some people unhappy. Literally every one, read these forums or listen to discussions on any topic at your facility. You should try to do what's best for the majority. This is the first one where the move is so bad that the agency doesn't have enough volunteers. Yes I feel bad for the people negatively affected by everything the agency has done but up until now to my knowledge the consolidations have had more controllers on board than against it
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What facility are you at? I was was the Fac Rep at a facility that got consolidated and many points you're making just aren't true. You're posting as if you've been in those meeting with NATCA and the Agency but its clear you haven't been. Most lower facilities don't have a say and no one at the higher level of NATCA is advocating on their behalf. I voiced my concerns to the workgroup and my RVP and NATCA removed our RVP right in the middle of our consolidation. Remember that guy Zilonis. We only had a total of two individuals that decided to move to the new facility which by percentages is less than the N90 volunteers to move to PHL. So less people at my facility wanted to move to the consolidated facility than N90 controllers want to move to PHL. Mr. N90 himself signed off on our MOU and as the Fac Rep I never had one conversation with him. Think about that, NATCA national removed our RVP and had Dean sign a MOU with the Agency without even talking to the leadership at the locals involved. Imagine if that happened at N90 and some dipshit from another facility comes on the internet and tries to justify it. In this case, you're the dipshit. You talk like you know what your talking about but you clearly have no clue of how these lower facilities get consolidated. Was any facility offered a $100,000 to move for only two years, was any facility offered a temporary move to come back to their current facility, was any facility offered per diem for two years, was any facility offered the same current facility level after consolidation. The answer is no to all above. Again, I was present and lived it so you can try and sell it as a different situation but I have the emails, I was in the meetings, and I know how we were sold out.
 
BCHOOSIER said:
What facility are you at? I was was the Fac Rep at a facility that got consolidated and many points you're making just aren't true. You're posting as if you've been in those meeting with NATCA and the Agency but its clear you haven't been. Most lower facilities don't have a say and no one at the higher level of NATCA is advocating on their behalf. I voiced my concerns to the workgroup and my RVP and NATCA removed our RVP right in the middle of our consolidation. Remember that guy Zilonis. We only had a total of two individuals that decided to move to the new facility which by percentages is less than the N90 volunteers to move to PHL. So less people at my facility wanted to move to the consolidated facility than N90 controllers want to move to PHL. Mr. N90 himself signed off on our MOU and as the Fac Rep I never had one conversation with him. Think about that, NATCA national removed our RVP and had Dean sign a MOU with the Agency without even talking to the leadership at the locals involved. Imagine if that happened at N90 and some dipshit from another facility comes on the internet and tries to justify it. In this case, you're the dipshit. You talk like you know what your talking about but you clearly have no clue of how these lower facilities get consolidated. Was any facility offered a $100,000 to move for only two years, was any facility offered a temporary move to come back to their current facility, was any facility offered per diem for two years, was any facility offered the same current facility level after consolidation. The answer is no to all above. Again, I was present and lived it so you can try and sell it as a different situation but I have the emails, I was in the meetings, and I know how we were sold out.
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Dean did personally sign N90 without any local input as well...


And because you guys got screwed means no one else can fight against bad moves?

This isn't an 804 move where N90 is getting 100k for it. It's incentive hush money to push through something wrong, not beneficial to anything 804 was created for and arguably illegal and unsafe.

It's not comparable otherwise FAA would have made it happen years ago
 
inthrewtheoutdor said:
Dean did personally sign N90 without any local input as well...


And because you guys got screwed means no one else can fight against bad moves?
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Please go back and read my comments. I've stated several times I support you guys fighting this consolidation.

inthrewtheoutdor said:
This isn't an 804 move where N90 is getting 100k for it. It's incentive hush money to push through something wrong, not beneficial to anything 804 was created for and arguably illegal and unsafe.

It's not comparable otherwise FAA would have made it happen years ago. If you want to die on the hill claiming you're special or different go for it.
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Call it whatever you want but at the end of the day its a consolidation. If you want to die on that hill feeling special or different, go for it.
 
inthrewtheoutdor said:

Congressman Anthony D’Esposito Demands FAA Leaders Permanently Reject any Attempt to Transfer Employees from N-90 Facility

NASSAU COUNTY, NEW YORK – Congressman Anthony D’Esposito (NY-04) reiterated his longstanding call for the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to reject any attempt to transfer employees from the FAA’s Long Island N-90 facility to alternative facilities in Pennsylvania. The N-90 facility...
desposito.house.gov desposito.house.gov
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What Schumer should have done...
 
BCHOOSIER said:
What facility are you at? I was was the Fac Rep at a facility that got consolidated and many points you're making just aren't true. You're posting as if you've been in those meeting with NATCA and the Agency but its clear you haven't been. Most lower facilities don't have a say and no one at the higher level of NATCA is advocating on their behalf. I voiced my concerns to the workgroup and my RVP and NATCA removed our RVP right in the middle of our consolidation. Remember that guy Zilonis. We only had a total of two individuals that decided to move to the new facility which by percentages is less than the N90 volunteers to move to PHL. So less people at my facility wanted to move to the consolidated facility than N90 controllers want to move to PHL. Mr. N90 himself signed off on our MOU and as the Fac Rep I never had one conversation with him. Think about that, NATCA national removed our RVP and had Dean sign a MOU with the Agency without even talking to the leadership at the locals involved. Imagine if that happened at N90 and some dipshit from another facility comes on the internet and tries to justify it. In this case, you're the dipshit. You talk like you know what your talking about but you clearly have no clue of how these lower facilities get consolidated. Was any facility offered a $100,000 to move for only two years, was any facility offered a temporary move to come back to their current facility, was any facility offered per diem for two years, was any facility offered the same current facility level after consolidation. The answer is no to all above. Again, I was present and lived it so you can try and sell it as a different situation but I have the emails, I was in the meetings, and I know how we were sold out.
Click to expand...

I've been part of both a downgrade and a section 804 and my experience was vastly different... We had years of meetings deciding which facility was going to get our radar, and most of the controllers couldn't wait to get out

If only two people moved to the new facility how did they staff the airspace?
 
ClearanceClarence said:
This is 100% correct and the fact that NATCA isn’t screaming from the rooftops about this is appalling and unacceptable. We’re not in the fucking military. The government should not be allowed to just send employees who already have permanent assignments wherever they please to suit their own needs. People are already forced to places they don’t want to be when they’re hired. Now people are being forced to places they don’t want to be years into employment. All the while, if someone wants to move to another facility, they’re all but forbidden from doing so. Fuck dictator Witaker and fuck NATCA for sitting around and letting it happen. The employees being forced to move should sue both of them.
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You forget that you're the employee and they are the employer. Go where they say for you to have a job or get a job somewhere else.
 
MMKAY2039 said:
You forget that you're the employee and they are the employer. Go where they say for you to have a job or get a job somewhere else.
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Go suck dick on the corner, not here. At least there you’ll hopefully get some money, bc those raises aren’t happening with the most labor friendly admin in history anytime soon.

Here, we’re just going to make fun of you
 

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