Will NATCA and the FAA extend the contract?

[BravoBravo]

Imagine if the workforce did this much stretching outside of the internet… probably wouldn’t have as nearly as bad of a staffing problem given all the medical DQs, some of y’all need to touch grass every once in a while seriously

 

[TimShady]

What’s wrong with going to mediation and eventually arbitration? I see that as a good thing. If the FAA just went along with what we asked for then we didn’t ask for enough. I’m glad to see PASS and hopefully NATCA willing to go to impasse over pay.

 

[32andBelow]

mick always said it’s going to arbitration no matter what

 

[n0vemberh0tel]

What’s wrong with going to mediation and eventually arbitration? I see that as a good thing. If the FAA just went along with what we asked for then we didn’t ask for enough. I’m glad to see PASS and hopefully NATCA willing to go to impasse over pay.

This. Id much rather us ask for too much and go to arbitration then the FAA bite on the first ask and have to wonder how much more we could have gotten.

 

[32andBelow]

This. Id much rather us ask for too much and go to arbitration then the FAA bite on the first ask and have to wonder how much more we could have gotten.

One time I bought a car and I made an offer and they said OK and I felt so bad for like a week

 

[Nothanks]

mick always said it’s going to arbitration no matter what

But so many people say all you have to do is ask for a raise ?

 

[32andBelow]

But so many people say all you have to do is ask for a raise ?

No one said that

 

[ATCJoe85]

Huge difference between what people were saying... that we have to start by asking... and saying that all it takes is asking.

 

[ClearanceClarence]

Huge difference between what people were saying... that we have to start by asking... and saying that all it takes is asking.

Exactly. Fighting for a pay raise is a process, not just an ask. The first time the union brings it up cannot be at the negotiating table. You need to set the stage and create leverage first. You do this by first organizing a massive PR campaign. You go to every media outlet that will take an interview and you begin pushing the narrative that air traffic controllers are overworked and underpaid. You make sure the flying public is fully aware of the situation and use the comparison to pilots and other industry professionals as to how we’ve been left behind with pay raises.

While you’re pushing the media narrative, you simultaneously run a coordinated lobbying campaign where you tell lawmakers and government officials the same thing.

Then by the time you get to the negotiating table, you have leverage to actually make something happen.

 

[PooseMaGoose]

...some of y’all need to touch grass every once in a while seriously

Exactly. Fighting for a pay raise is a process, not just an ask. The first time the union brings it up cannot be at the negotiating table. You need to set the stage and create leverage first. You do this by first organizing a massive PR campaign. You go to every media outlet that will take an interview and you begin pushing the narrative that air traffic controllers are overworked and underpaid. You make sure the flying public is fully aware of the situation and use the comparison to pilots and other industry professionals as to how we’ve been left behind with pay raises.

While you’re pushing the media narrative, you simultaneously run a coordinated lobbying campaign where you tell lawmakers and government officials the same thing.

Then by the time you get to the negotiating table, you have leverage to actually make something happen.

Well said. In reality though, it’s manufactured leverage. Without the ability to strike, there isn’t a lot of “oompf” behind the public awareness campaigns and the advocacy.

 

[ClearanceClarence]

Well said. In reality though, it’s manufactured leverage. Without the ability to strike, there isn’t a lot of “oompf” behind the public awareness campaigns and the advocacy.

If you can convince the right people that it’s a problem, it will get done. If the airlines think they may loose money because of it, things will move in the right direction. No pay raises = less incentive = more resignations/retirements = worse staffing = more delays = less profits. It’s not a hard argument to make.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

Exactly. Fighting for a pay raise is a process, not just an ask. The first time the union brings it up cannot be at the negotiating table. You need to set the stage and create leverage first. You do this by first organizing a massive PR campaign. You go to every media outlet that will take an interview and you begin pushing the narrative that air traffic controllers are overworked and underpaid. You make sure the flying public is fully aware of the situation and use the comparison to pilots and other industry professionals as to how we’ve been left behind with pay raises.

While you’re pushing the media narrative, you simultaneously run a coordinated lobbying campaign where you tell lawmakers and government officials the same thing.

Then by the time you get to the negotiating table, you have leverage to actually make something happen.

Well said. In reality though, it’s manufactured leverage. Without the ability to strike, there isn’t a lot of “oompf” behind the public awareness campaigns and the advocacy.

If you can convince the right people that it’s a problem, it will get done. If the airlines think they may loose money because of it, things will move in the right direction. No pay raises = less incentive = more resignations/retirements = worse staffing = more delays = less profits. It’s not a hard argument to make.

i really think we need a huge hand from the ALPA. Politicians and the general public can’t empathize with us because they have no idea what we do, or what would happen if we didn’t show up to work. Pilots can empathize in a way nobody else can by explaining that they don’t fly without ATC, and how inefficient ATC could hit their bottom line.

 

[PooseMaGoose]

If you can convince the right people that it’s a problem, it will get done. If the airlines think they may loose money because of it, things will move in the right direction. No pay raises = less incentive = more resignations/retirements = worse staffing = more delays = less profits. It’s not a hard argument to make.

That’s actually a really good point. Unfortunately every OTS bid gets tens of thousands of applicants willing to take the spots of any attrition. It’s not a viable solution to staffing because we aren’t on track to hit targets in the next two decades, but when one bid gets 50k applicants, it tells the people in charge that pay must be “good enough.”

Too bad they probably give more weight to the number of uninformed people trying to get into the job over the attrition and hardships of the people actually doing the job.

 

[32andBelow]

That’s actually a really good point. Unfortunately every OTS bid gets tens of thousands of applicants willing to take the spots of any attrition. It’s not a viable solution to staffing because we aren’t on track to hit targets in the next two decades, but when one bid gets 50k applicants, it tells the people in charge that pay must be “good enough.”

Too bad they probably give more weight to the number of uninformed people trying to get into the job over the attrition and hardships of the people actually doing the job.

This is what happens when you don’t advocate for guardrails on your applicant pool and let middle school dropouts qualify

 

[PooseMaGoose]

This is what happens when you don’t advocate for guardrails on your applicant pool and let middle school dropouts qualify

Yeah.. let’s say even just 10% of the OTS are qualified and capable. That’s still 3-5 THOUSAND people every single OTS announcement, well over the hiring target for the bid and the acceptance rate for the academy.

Yet it screams “high supply” to the demand for the big wigs and distracts from the point that the pay isn’t keeping pace with the nature of the job.

 

[Move78]

What’s wrong with going to mediation and eventually arbitration? I see that as a good thing. If the FAA just went along with what we asked for then we didn’t ask for enough. I’m glad to see PASS and hopefully NATCA willing to go to impasse over pay.

It’s absolutely a bad thing and it’s absolutely a guarantee.

 

[GulfCharlie]

It’s absolutely a bad thing and it’s absolutely a guarantee.

People are willing to take a stand on principle. It is better to try and fail than never try at all. More people are coming around to this idea because NATCA cannot keep “playing it safe” all the time. Not everyone is at a level 12 and it resonates with the lower levels.

Life has wins and losses, people accept this.

 

[32andBelow]

Yeah.. let’s say even just 10% of the OTS are qualified and capable. That’s still 3-5 THOUSAND people every single OTS announcement, well over the hiring target for the bid and the acceptance rate for the academy.

Yet it screams “high supply” to the demand for the big wigs and distracts from the point that the pay isn’t keeping pace with the nature of the job.

And way more people apply to delta then delta hires…

 

[Nothanks]

People are willing to take a stand on principle. It is better to try and fail than never try at all. More people are coming around to this idea because NATCA cannot keep “playing it safe” all the time. Not everyone is at a level 12 and it resonates with the lower levels.

Life has wins and losses, people accept this.

Maybe some people are, but you weren’t willing to stay a controller to find out.

 

[PooseMaGoose]

And way more people apply to delta then delta hires…

How many? And how many of those Delta applicants are off the street with zero experience?

The point stands. 30-50k applicants on a bid communicates a high supply to leadership.