No, it’s lazy management and Natca training reps who think forcing hours is the best way to avoid outsiders from looking at their shitty training program. The actual purpose of the ncept is to get people the training they need not simply just training hours .There is a difference.
Will NATCA and the FAA extend the contract?
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This is not the purpose of NCEPT
GulfBravoPapa
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I think you mean NTI
You are right. but let’s be honest that’s why the ncept isn’t working. Supes are trying to keep their numbers up so they don’t get shit, and ojti go along with their bullshit certifications because they see it as their way out.
HurryUpandWait
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While hoping blue wins the election
The NTI is about $$$. The FAA told congress they need more people - which of course means more money. Congress agreed but wants to see the results of that $$$. The NTI is a way for the FAA to give congress actual figures to show how that $$$ is being spent.
I believe that NTI numbers are also tied into management's pay/raises/performance and ability to promote...again about $$$.
I believe that NTI numbers are also tied into management's pay/raises/performance and ability to promote...again about $$$.
You’re right on the first paragraph except that people inappropriately use training at the scope as the sole metric. And very few are willing to think beyond that, which is available as a legitimate justification. It’s difficult yes but ojt isn’t the only thing that counts. People don’t think it is.
Yes supervisors get a dollar for every hour they force training. SMH.
HurryUpandWait
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They get a dollar for every hour of training?
No, but you had better believe on their Supervisor evals they write bullet points like:
“I personally enabled and oversaw over 500 hours of ojti, surpassing the NTI goal by over 30% for every trainee in the facility” etc etc
What was a legitimate goal, push training and study what makes training not happen, has turned into a pencil whipped line item on an eval by management, all in hopes of a raise. It’s a number and the faa loves to evaluate supes by numbers and other such metrics, rather than subjective qualifications. It’s turned what should be meaningful and considered, the assignment of training, into a competition into who can get the most, as if more training is automatically good training.
We all know the supes we would come in for on our day off and work 4 hours on postion without complaining. We know the ones we wouldn’t piss on if they were on fire. Sadly, the faa only cares about what supe has higher TOP and other such metics, it saves them from actually having to know their people
The irony is that it makes the situation worse all around. Not only does the agency not good data on impediments to training depriving them of useful information to reform the training program and process, but trainees often get all their hours used up on light not difficult traffic because the supe wants to check a box. Either they get checked out before they are ready, or they get put in the TRB process un-necessarily because “they haven’t seen enough stuff yet” .
The point of the nti is valid. Some lower level up/down faculties had and still have checkout times 3-5 years. That’s clearly a facility problem. Rather than address the places that aren’t cutting the mustard, the faa swung the ax and now they have cut down the rest of the forest with the few rotten trees and have left swarths of destruction where only some pruning was required.
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32andBelow
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Trainees should train all day every day. It’s the arbitrary max and min hours that are the problem.
THIS this this is the frustrating part. You hear stories all the time of ATMs who force training because they don't want to spend the time to fill out the impediments spreadsheet, and that sweeps any genuine impediments under the rug so they can't be addressed.
Wizard
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Agreed.
Define "train". To me that's a huge part of the problem.
32andBelow
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Plugged in and working traffic
That's good in theory but it doesn't work. In some regards it's counter productive. Max and mins are just a way for the FAA to avoid being sued.
32andBelow
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It’s not counter productive to have a trainee work and learn. Plenty of teachable things happen when it’s slow. It’s counter productive to have the “run out of hours” of the hours aren’t matching the amount of time it takes to get certified if you train 5 hours a day
Atcbrownie
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Min/max should be based on days not hours. Training every single day and time regardless of the hours teaches the trainee exactly what the job is. Training hourly is why people would go days without training (pre-NTI). Everyone was waiting for a mythological amount of "busy" traffic. If training is based on days, the trainee has a drive to maximize their training everyday. They not only work the busy times but the slow times as well. They aren't concerned about "wasting hours" the entire training team is now focusing on "maximizing days".
6 years Air Force where we trained based on days, we trained constantly. 15+ years FAA and it's been 15 years of excuses about how "it's not busy enough"
6 years Air Force where we trained based on days, we trained constantly. 15+ years FAA and it's been 15 years of excuses about how "it's not busy enough"
It's not about being slow/busy. It's about instructor burn out. Folks here take SL to avoid having to train. So, on some days (maybe once a week) nobody gets training. Some days they are lucky and get someone on OT so it actually costs them more.
I know we don't get paid for moral but here moral is extremely low because all you do is come to work and train someone. You never work. Just train. Management stalks you like an injured zebra among a herd of lions to pair you with a DEV. Local NATCA here is too weak to tell management to screw off. I'm not a Controller. I'm an academy instructor that has to teach with live traffic and work mids.
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32andBelow
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training on slow traffic is one of the easiest things you’ll do all day and you get a 20% raise.
