Airservices Australia Recruiting Initiative

Cpt_munky said:

Why would you need to speak Chinese in Japan?

Cause Hong Kong isn’t in Japan…

DankVectorz said:

Cause Hong Kong isn’t in Japan…

I missed the context on that one. Didn't see Hong Kong, only Iwakuni.

ZO said:

It's a pay raise for most. I'll be going from a 12 and it's certainly a buying power raise for me.

Can you give me an example. I know there is a salary cut....housing is similar in Sydney and Melbourne

Phillytroll69 said:

Can you give me an example. I know there is a salary cut....housing is similar in Sydney and Melbourne

It's a salary cut if you convert AUD to USD which doesn't make a ton of sense considering Australia doesn't use USD. For instance, I pay $2400 USD in rent and can find a similar rental in Sydney for ~$2800 AUD. I'm not over there yet, so things may be different than they appear, but coming from a 185k USD in a HCOL, to 230k AUD with similar rental cost says enough for me, since its basically my only major expense.

Plus with no state/county tax, and factor in the ~15% superannuation ontop of the salary. HR ran the calculations for me as well, if I wanted to work 1 OT/week (44 hr work week) which is less than I currently work, she said i could expect ~330k+ AUD.

Basically people just google 200k AUD to USD and think its a paycut and use that as an excuse to not try to improve their situation so they can continue to complain, rather than actually taking the time to look into it.

Obviously its not for everyone, but I jumped on it the second i heard about the opportunity.

ZO said:

It's a salary cut if you convert AUD to USD which doesn't make a ton of sense considering Australia doesn't use USD. For instance, I pay $2400 USD in rent and can find a similar rental in Sydney for ~$2800 AUD. I'm not over there yet, so things may be different than they appear, but coming from a 185k USD in a HCOL, to 230k AUD with similar rental cost says enough for me, since its basically my only major expense.

Plus with no state/county tax, and factor in the ~15% superannuation ontop of the salary. HR ran the calculations for me as well, if I wanted to work 1 OT/week (44 hr work week) which is less than I currently work, she said i could expect ~330k+ AUD.

Basically people just google 200k AUD to USD and think its a paycut and use that as an excuse to not try to improve their situation so they can continue to complain, rather than actually taking the time to look into it.

Obviously its not for everyone, but I jumped on it the second i heard about the opportunity.

Im so jealous. If I was a little younger and my parents in better health I’d have jumped at the opportunity.

ZO said:

It's a salary cut if you convert AUD to USD which doesn't make a ton of sense considering Australia doesn't use USD. For instance, I pay $2400 USD in rent and can find a similar rental in Sydney for ~$2800 AUD. I'm not over there yet, so things may be different than they appear, but coming from a 185k USD in a HCOL, to 230k AUD with similar rental cost says enough for me, since its basically my only major expense.

Plus with no state/county tax, and factor in the ~15% superannuation ontop of the salary. HR ran the calculations for me as well, if I wanted to work 1 OT/week (44 hr work week) which is less than I currently work, she said i could expect ~330k+ AUD.

Basically people just google 200k AUD to USD and think its a paycut and use that as an excuse to not try to improve their situation so they can continue to complain, rather than actually taking the time to look into it.

Obviously its not for everyone, but I jumped on it the second i heard about the opportunity.

Yeah I was on costoflivingcalsculator and browsing around. Restaurants and Groceries seem way better(fresher) and cheaper.

DankVectorz said:

Im so jealous. If I was a little younger and my parents in better health I’d have jumped at the opportunity.

I imagine it would be crazy going from a Wild West USA 12 to a regimented ICAO facility.

DankVectorz said:

Im so jealous. If I was a little younger and my parents in better health I’d have jumped at the opportunity.

I'm definitely in a fortunate position for this, no kids and 19 years til retirement eligibility.

I'd have taken it even if it was a significant paycut. I'm lucky to be at a 12, and my paycheck is...(will probably catch some strays) good for a single person with no kids. I can comfortably max my TSP and save a good part of every paycheck. But a big reason I'm done with it is I'm not going to see weekends off for probably 15 years. Which *might* be tolerable if spot leave was ever available, and it certainly is not.

While I agree that our pay needs adressed, this will not solve the issue we are facing. I think we will see a significantly increased retention issue in the coming years with the new generation coming in.

Younger kids will realize they are staring down the barrel of a career without grabbing drinks with their friends on the weekends, or seeing their kids soccer games for the next 15+ years, they'll jump ship at an alarming rate, certified or not.

This was the tradeoff for a great salary, but that is no longer the case. Without a significant pay raise (unlikely) we need to address quality of life.

Reading through ASAs contract makes me so upset with Natca, because ASAs contract is miles better than ours. We should be fighting for some of the articles they have, not better equipment. The quality of life articles they have are unreal and should be standard across the profession.

To keep this rant semi-short, I planned on spending the next 20 years at my 12. Within 2 I was looking for any way out. The QoL trade off from a small facility for a much better paycheck is not worth it in my opinion now that I've seen both sides. But this is a trade off we shouldn't have to make as the best, most highly skilled controllers in the world.

I'm upset at Natca and the FAA, I absolutely love this job and to see how much better we could and should have it if we focused on the right things just makes me irrationally angry.

End rant.

ZO said:

I'm definitely in a fortunate position for this, no kids and 19 years til retirement eligibility.

I'd have taken it even if it was a significant paycut. I'm lucky to be at a 12, and my paycheck is...(will probably catch some strays) good for a single person with no kids. I can comfortably max my TSP and save a good part of every paycheck. But a big reason I'm done with it is I'm not going to see weekends off for probably 15 years. Which *might* be tolerable if spot leave was ever available, and it certainly is not.

While I agree that our pay needs adressed, this will not solve the issue we are facing. I think we will see a significantly increased retention issue in the coming years with the new generation coming in.

Younger kids will realize they are staring down the barrel of a career without grabbing drinks with their friends on the weekends, or seeing their kids soccer games for the next 15+ years, they'll jump ship at an alarming rate, certified or not.

This was the tradeoff for a great salary, but that is no longer the case. Without a significant pay raise (unlikely) we need to address quality of life.

Reading through ASAs contract makes me so upset with Natca, because ASAs contract is miles better than ours. We should be fighting for some of the articles they have, not better equipment. The quality of life articles they have are unreal and should be standard across the profession.

To keep this rant semi-short, I planned on spending the next 20 years at my 12. Within 2 I was looking for any way out. The QoL trade off from a small facility for a much better paycheck is not worth it in my opinion now that I've seen both sides. But this is a trade off we shouldn't have to make as the best, most highly skilled controllers in the world.

I'm upset at Natca and the FAA, I absolutely love this job and to see how much better we could and should have it if we focused on the right things just makes me irrationally angry.

End rant.

You have a link to their contract?

Bandit117 said:

You have a link to their contract?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Enterprise_Agreement_2024-2027.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiU6aHqkeqPAxU95MkDHUR0Gr0QFnoECCkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2x2yupukpJgpBBDoCVwBCT

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Enterprise_Agreement_2024-2027.pdf
Easier link

Maybe someone can help me with this but id like to get an easier reading comparison

 contract
So far OT is 1.9x after only 72 hours
Weekends off sometimes with a rotating schedule
Sick leave is more but stricter documentation

quality/pay
super annuity vs tsp?
cost of living equivalent (more like zny or indy?)
socialism?

Phillytroll69 said:

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Enterprise_Agreement_2024-2027.pdf
Easier link

Maybe someone can help me with this but id like to get an easier reading comparison

 contract
So far OT is 1.9x after only 72 hours
Weekends off sometimes with a rotating schedule
Sick leave is more but stricter documentation

quality/pay
super annuity vs tsp?
cost of living equivalent (more like zny or indy?)
socialism?

Acquired Taste said:

From what I can gather as well:

The OT is voluntary and if you are on the "yes" list, you can be allocated 5 shifts in a 3 month period where you are on call. These shifts seem to be set in advance, so basically I think if one shift is scheduled min staffing on a Saturday night, they can schedule you to be on call. Once again, this is voluntary, and you can volunteer for less than 5 shifts every 3 months as well. If you are not called in on the day you're allocated, you get 4 hours of pay for being on call. If you do get called in and have to work the OT, you get 1.9x your standard pay rate.

Their holiday pay is 1.97x your pay if you actually work the holiday. If you are off on the holiday but work an in lieu of day, you only get paid 0.79 of 1 shift's pay.

Looks like annual use or lose carryover is 288 hours if you are a M-F day worker, or 388 hours if you're a sever day shift worker. It's hard to tell if there's 2 classifications of atc or not where some get to work M-F while the others have to work nights and weekends. I'm reading this from their contract which also covers staff support and some other positions so I would assume that all actual atc are considered 7 day shift workers and would get to carryover the 388 hours.

PPL: For the primary caregiver (I presume the mothers) they get 18 weeks of PPL. However, they are required to take 6 weeks immediately preceding the expected birth date and 6 weeks after the actual birth date. For the secondary caregiver, they currently get 11 weeks of PPL but that increases to 14 weeks starting in March of 2026 and 18 weeks starting in March 2027. They can also opt to take half pay and stretch the PPL out to 36 weeks.

Long service leave: After 10 years of work, you are entitled to 3 months of leave to be granted in blocks of at least 7 calendar days at a time.

If any part of your shift touches between the hours of 0001 and 0459, you are credited with 2 hours of night shift leave for every shift worked. Can accrue a max of 72 hours of this leave per year.

Their busiest tower is Sydney, which by comparison to here runs a similar amount of traffic to FLL, so it's essentially a level 8.

ChatGPT gave me a good comparison of this versus the slate book:

Here’s a more focused comparison of rights/benefits around pay, premiums, allowances, and compensation in the two agreements (Airservices AU EA 2024-27 vs NATCA “Slate Book” CBA 2016+). Note that the information for NATCA is a bit older and generalized, so there are some uncertainties; but I pulled together what I could find.

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Airservices Australia EA (2024-2027) — Relevant Pay & Benefit Highlights

From released summaries and government sources, here are the key compensation / allowance features:

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NATCA (“Slate Book” CBA) — Pay & Benefit Highlights

Here’s what can be gathered (from the older documents, plus updates) about what NATCA members receive:

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Direct Contrasts: What Airservices Provides that NATCA Either Doesn’t, Or Provides Differently

Here are the main differences (in pay/benefits) where the Airservices agreement seems to offer something distinct compared to NATCA’s:

1. Certifications / classification refinements & trainee pay
   Airservices puts explicit emphasis on refining the classification structure and boosting trainee rates from commencement. The revised structure is meant to reward acquisition and maintenance of qualifications. NATCA does provide pay bands and trainee rates, but from what I saw, there isn’t an equivalent recent overhaul (as of the 2016 CBA) requesting increased base rate for trainees just on starting in the same direct manner.
2. Sign-on bonus
   The AU agreement includes an upfront lump sign-on bonus (AU$8,000) which can go to pay or super. NATCA’s 2016 agreement had lump sums (1% of Base Pay) but nothing similar to a sign-on bonus for new or re-signing employees in that timeframe.
3. Multi-location / operational resilience allowance
   This is specific to Airservices: extra pay for working across multiple locations or being flexible in coverage. NATCA has locality pay (for region differences) but “multi-location” per se is not the same concept.

4. Rate of base pay increases

   • Airservices: 11.2% over three years, front loaded somewhat with a 4% first increase.
   • NATCA: increases tied to GS / federal schedules annually (for example ~4-5%), plus locality adjustments. The yearly increases seem smaller and more incremental compared to Airservices’ 11.2% over three years.
5. Premiums for specialized duties
   Both have premiums/allowances for special work (training, overtime, complexity etc.), but some of the Airservices allowances (lenses, mature age, etc.) are quite specific and might be broader in scope. For example, NATCA has OJTI premiums (training premium), but Airservices has a more structured set of allowances tied to training, classification, plus many smaller allowances (eyesight, mature age, etc.).
6. Recognition for on-job training instructors
   Airservices explicitly improves recognition and pay for On-the-Job Training Instructors in the new EA. NATCA has (in the Slate Book) premiums for OJTI, but the additional temporary premium (10%) was an add-on via MOU, not necessarily built-in to base contract in the same way.

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Limitations & Caveats

• The NATCA information I found is older, so there may have been changes since the 2016 document (extensions or new MOUs) that alter some of these terms.
• Currency differences: U.S. vs Australian law/tax/super/pension mean that absolute dollar amounts aren’t directly comparable. Also “cost of living / locality” make big differences in real value.
• Some allowances are context-specific (e.g. multi-location in Airservices might be more important/time-costly than it appears in the U.S. environment).

Another awesome article that I'd certainly take advantage of if its actually possible to get approved (maybe too dependent on staffing? Not sure)

I spoke with a controller there through Reddit and they said good luck getting the sabbatical time approved. Everywhere is short so they don’t allow it.

How you get a copy of your medical certificate from faa

Phillytroll69 said:

How you get a copy of your medical certificate from faa

Call and Ask your flight surgeon for a duplicate? Foia?

Phillytroll69 said:

How you get a copy of your medical certificate from faa

Email your regional medical office.

KP-ATC said:

Email your regional medical office.

Yeah gomma get my ppl so I wasnt sure ill start there

Phillytroll69 said:

Yeah gomma get my ppl so I wasnt sure ill start there

Idk if it matters for this but pilot medical and ATC medical are not the same.