AWOL

[Anonguy]

Apologies in advance, as I'm sure this is par for the agency and I'm just over-reacting. I'll also say that I already know NATCA will resolve this locally/regionally, but I'm uncertain just resolving this is enough anymore.... maybe it's the best I can expect, though?

Recently, our ATM decided willy-nilly to start charging people AWOL when they arrived a few minutes late. Past precident was we'd either get excused, or if we didn't want to talk to management, we'd use our own credit/annual.

My rep was told this will be case-by-case.

So the other week I hit traffic, call 20 minutes ahead to advise I'll be 5 minutes late. I arrive, CIC gives me verbal approval to use 5 minutes of credit. I enter the request in WMT. I sign in ART using 5 minutes of credit. The following week I see 5 minutes AWOL on my EExpress stub, and WMT now reflects this. Nobody said a word to me about this.

Stating for the record that as a commuter, I've been late plenty (I call ahead 100% of the time), but across 8+ supes/ATMs in 10+ years, I've never been charged AWOL.

One of two things is happening: the first, most obvious is that our ATM has a crusade against controllers. Their first order of business when they arrived more than a year ago was to delete people's credit that they worked, and then they gave us some lame excuse for doing it after the union fixed it.

More recently, a supe, allegedly under guidance from the ATM, told a controller that if they were running late due to traffic, they should take pictures of the traffic for documentation.

Plenty of other things I could list that would show a pattern of going out of their way to find wrongdoing, even where none exists.


The 2nd, less likely and far more difficult to prove would be that I'm being retaliated against for making a complaint against a supe several months back. It was not an EEO complaint directly, but it was tied to an event that was an EEO issue, which resulted in a favorable outcome for the primary complaintant. This supe was the one who charged me AWOL, and they have a long history of EEO and other complaints against them, including (spoiler alert) retaliation.


Anyway, I'll obviously get my 5 minutes back, but is that the best I'm getting? Would this warrant any further action on my part, other than just to wait? I mean, without notice they docked my pay, and tarnished my record. And this is (at least) the third legally questionable act by the ATM in about a year.
Am I just late to the party with this AWOL thing, or is it unusual?

TIA

 

[Rico]

This will certainly get resolved by your rep. In the interim I would make a hotline complaint just to get the bus completely run over this ATM.

 

[Soul_Controller]

Things can be coded AWOL as a placeholder pending an investigation. Its an annoying bit of fuckery but management will use this to bully people.

I'd start documenting inconsistencies with what they do and don't approve and try to trip them up that way.

My ATM don't play that coming in late shit, so we've always been on eggshells about that. You get like once or twice a year to be late outside of situations where everyone is expected to be late (bad weather, highway by airport closed off, etc). And by "get to be late" I mean, he'll code it AWOL without attaching discipline to it.

 

[Mr.Tickles]

So your facility has issues with people being habitually late which includes yourself. Your ATM is tired of it and has basically said without words that habitual offenders will be charged awol when late.

Don’t be late to your job and you won’t have to worry about being charged awol. It’s not hard. Plenty of people have long commutes in large metroplexs and aren’t late as a regular occurrence.

Multiple controllers taking advantage of not having to be on time results in bullshit like this.

 

[Anonguy]

So your facility has issues with people being habitually late which includes yourself. Your ATM is tired of it and has basically said without words that habitual offenders will be charged awol when late.

Don’t be late to your job and you won’t have to worry about being charged awol. It’s not hard. Plenty of of people have long commutes in large metroplex’s and aren’t late as a regular occurrence.

Multiple controllers taking advantage of not having to be on time results in bullshit like this.

LOL. ?
To be so dense, you've gotta be a supe.

First of all, are you okay with your approved spot leave being changed to AWOL without notice?

In 10+ years, no supe or ATM (including the present one) has ever confronted me about my attendance or told me I have any kind of issues... that's even factoring that this ATM introduced leave reviews (something no other manager I've had ever did). Being late plenty in a 10 year timeframe isn't unusual or the mark of habitual, and if you think it "isn't that hard", then I'm gonna guess your observations of those who commute are limited at best. In 90 miles, lots of shit happens, and you can build in a solid buffer and still have it not work for you on occasion. Within a week of this my colleague (60 mile commuter) was delayed an entire hour because of a complete freeway closure due to an accident (his excused leave was approved).

But beyond all that, no. The ATM is not "tired of it", as it in no way, shape, or form impacts them or the operation... no OT called/held, no ATC alerts or questions of staffing safety.
It's their prerogative to not approve excused and save themselves the $5, which is why I won't always bother asking for that. And this new policy didn't seem to prevent the same supe who charged me AWOL from no-call, no showing to their shift, then arriving 45 minutes later and changing their shift to reflect it. So timeliness is clearly not that important to management here.

And it's extra cute that you think management can start acting against people "without words". My manager also seems to be under the impression we don't have a union.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

My mind is just blown you get excused leave for being late ?

 

[Mr.Tickles]

LOL. ?
To be so dense, you've gotta be a supe.

First of all, are you okay with your approved spot leave being changed to AWOL without notice?

In 10+ years, no supe or ATM (including the present one) has ever confronted me about my attendance or told me I have any kind of issues... that's even factoring that this ATM introduced leave reviews (something no other manager I've had ever did). Being late plenty in a 10 year timeframe isn't unusual or the mark of habitual, and if you think it "isn't that hard", then I'm gonna guess your observations of those who commute are limited at best. In 90 miles, lots of shit happens, and you can build in a solid buffer and still have it not work for you on occasion. Within a week of this my colleague (60 mile commuter) was delayed an entire hour because of a complete freeway closure due to an accident (his excused leave was approved).

But beyond all that, no. The ATM is not "tired of it", as it in no way, shape, or form impacts them or the operation... no OT called/held, no ATC alerts or questions of staffing safety.
It's their prerogative to not approve excused and save themselves the $5, which is why I won't always bother asking for that. And this new policy didn't seem to prevent the same supe who charged me AWOL from no-call, no showing to their shift, then arriving 45 minutes later and changing their shift to reflect it. So timeliness is clearly not that important to management here.

And it's extra cute that you think management can start acting against people "without words". My manager also seems to be under the impression we don't have a union.

Naa not a sup. Just tired of controllers who think the rules don’t apply to them.

2/3 of my area lives 45-90 minutes away in one of the largest metroplexes in the country so I’m aware of how often people show up late due to unexpected traffic.

Id hazard a guess your fellow controller wasn’t charged awol because he’s not habitually late.

As I said before if you show up to work on time consistently then you won’t be dealing with this issue.

 

[Phillytroll69]

So your facility has issues with people being habitually late which includes yourself. Your ATM is tired of it and has basically said without words that habitual offenders will be charged awol when late.

Don’t be late to your job and you won’t have to worry about being charged awol. It’s not hard. Plenty of people have long commutes in large metroplexs and aren’t late as a regular occurrence.

Multiple controllers taking advantage of not having to be on time results in bullshit like this.

Especially with a 30 minute flex. Maybe aim for 30 minutes so you can arrive in a timely manner before you leave an hour early

 

[Mr.Tickles]

Especially with a 30 minute flex. Maybe aim for 30 minutes so you can arrive in a timely manner before you leave an hour early

Exactly. Even if it’s a 15 minute flex. Traffic isn’t so erratic that it’s impossible to generally know how long it’s gonna take to get to work on the majority of days.

 

[CoffeeIV]

No sympathy. People that can't show up on time are annoying. Bet you back up the time on cruart too like plenty of other scammers. Hope the AWOL sticks and more ATMs do this.

 

[Anonguy]

Naa not a sup. Just tired of controllers who think the rules don’t apply to them.

2/3 of my area lives 45-90 minutes away in one of the largest metroplexes in the country so I’m aware of how often people show up late due to unexpected traffic.

Id hazard a guess your fellow controller wasn’t charged awol because he’s not habitually late.

As I said before if you show up to work on time consistently then you won’t be dealing with this issue.

1. You have done a poor job of explaining which rule I think doesn't apply to me, and seem to be actively avoiding the topic of whether spot leave approved by CIC can be arbitrarily switched to AWOL.

2. You continue to talk as though you are certain of my arrival habits. My colleagues would vouch for me. I am not the black sheep of my facility.

3. The logic of 'do things in the way management would prefer and you'll be okay' doesn't really work here, as while we have continually adjusted to the new ATM, they continue to change their standards... with or without warning, and whether they're in the right or not... as outlined in my other examples.
God help us if we conform to every minutia they'd like us to with leave usage/attendance, because then to find the "gotcha", they'd have to turn their attention to the minutia in how we work our traffic.

Exactly. Even if it’s a 15 minute flex. Traffic isn’t so erratic that it’s impossible to generally know how long it’s gonna take to get to work on the majority of days.

On 98% of my flex shifts, I show up for the front of the flex. The specific day in question was not a flex shift. And yes, I know how commuting works.

No sympathy. People that can't show up on time are annoying. Bet you back up the time on cruart too like plenty of other scammers. Hope the AWOL sticks and more ATMs do this.

People who are presumptuous are annoying. Also, I didn't come here for sympathy, I came here to figure out if what happened is actionable.




Holy shit is the simping for management heavy here! And over 5 minutes!

My mind is just blown you get excused leave for being late ?

So are you saying your life is so organized and free of disruption that you've never been late outside of your control. Or are you saying you just use your own leave when that happens?

 

[sillyatc]

My manager also seems to be under the impression we don't have a union.

That is correct

 

[corn4ahead]

Lol everyone here acting so righteous.

Hate the game, not the player.

There are rules and then there are rules.

Everyone here knows what I’m talking about.

 

[Mr.Tickles]

1. You have done a poor job of explaining which rule I think doesn't apply to me, and seem to be actively avoiding the topic of whether spot leave approved by CIC can be arbitrarily switched to AWOL.

2. You continue to talk as though you are certain of my arrival habits. My colleagues would vouch for me. I am not the black sheep of my facility.

3. The logic of 'do things in the way management would prefer and you'll be okay' doesn't really work here, as while we have continually adjusted to the new ATM, they continue to change their standards... with or without warning, and whether they're in the right or not... as outlined in my other examples.
God help us if we conform to every minutia they'd like us to with leave usage/attendance, because then to find the "gotcha", they'd have to turn their attention to the minutia in how we work our traffic.


On 98% of my flex shifts, I show up for the front of the flex. The specific day in question was not a flex shift. And yes, I know how commuting works.

Holy shit is the simping for management heavy here! And over 5 minutes!

1.Showing up on time.

2.

Stating for the record that as a commuter, I've been late plenty (I call ahead 100% of the time), but across 8+ supes/ATMs in 10+ years, I've never been charged AWOL.

3. Showing up on time on a regular basis is not what management prefers but a requirement of our employment.

You’ve also acknowledged that it’s on a per case basis meaning that awols are likely only going to those that are consistently late.

You admitted yourself that you’re late plenty. Quit making excuses, take your awol, and show up to work on time. Problem solved.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

So are you saying your life is so organized and free of disruption that you've never been late outside of your control. Or are you saying you just use your own leave when that happens?

Well I can't remember that last time I was late beyond the flex time, but all our shifts have flex times. But I would use my own leave in that instance.

 

[Atcbrownie]

I wonder how many hours of excused leave I have missed out on over the years because I show up to work on time? Legit had no idea people got excused leave for showing up late. I always thought they used their own leave.

I work with someone that literally lives in the neighborhood right next to the TRACON. At most a 1/16th mile drive. Late every single day.

 

[Anonguy]

1.Showing up on time.

Showing up for work on time is expected. Taking leave on the front of your shift is something that is allowed, staffing permitting. I asked for and was approved to take credit at the beginning of my shift, so there was no "rule" that I broke. But I guess no matter how many times I say that, ignoring it allows you to make the workforce out to be the bad guy. Since you're not management already, I suggest you apply, they want those who think like you.

You’ve also acknowledged that it’s on a per case basis meaning that awols are likely only going to those that are consistently late.

Case by case is what we've been told, but it's a new implementation. Time will tell if there's anyone who avoids it, but I couldn't name a controller here who hasn't been late at one time or another, for one reason or another. Heck, we got another one running late today for car mechanical issues.

You admitted yourself that you’re late plenty.

I also noted that over 10 years, one can be late plenty without it being habitual.

take your awol

Man, you're still not getting it. There is no case in which this ends with me taking the awol (not because of the 3 minutes of money, but out of principle) Let me remind you that awol stands for absent without leave, and I had approval to take leave.

Rep has already acknowledged they're prepping for the battle and asked bues for statements (not just for my case) which will be instantly above the ATMs head. The only reason I was posting here was to gather insight on whether this transgression, viewed alongside those others, was grounds for action beyond just resolution of the AWOL.

I wonder how many hours of excused leave I have missed out on over the years because I show up to work on time? Legit had no idea people got excused leave for showing up late. I always thought they used their own leave.

I work with someone that literally lives in the neighborhood right next to the TRACON. At most a 1/16th mile drive. Late every single day.

Would you rather be commuting 180 miles a day to get that occasional excused leave when things don't go as planned? Or skip out on it? I mean personally I salivate over the handful of hours of excused I've gotten over the years, and feel sorry for anyone who lives in the same town as their facility... but to each their own. ?

Well I can't remember that last time I was late beyond the flex time, but all our shifts have flex times. But I would use my own leave in that instance.

I'm trying to come up with someone I've known in the FAA who has never been late, but I don't think anyone I've worked with fits that bill.

 

[Papacharlie327]

Can you fight the sup? I’ve always wanted to do that.

 

[Mr.Tickles]

Showing up for work on time is expected. Taking leave on the front of your shift is something that is allowed, staffing permitting. I asked for and was approved to take credit at the beginning of my shift, so there was no "rule" that I broke. But I guess no matter how many times I say that, ignoring it allows you to make the workforce out to be the bad guy. Since you're not management already, I suggest you apply, they want those who think like you.

Case by case is what we've been told, but it's a new implementation. Time will tell if there's anyone who avoids it, but I couldn't name a controller here who hasn't been late at one time or another, for one reason or another. Heck, we got another one running late today for car mechanical issues.

I also noted that over 10 years, one can be late plenty without it being habitual.

This is not a workforce issue. This is a you failing to arrive to work on time issue.

Man, you're still not getting it. There is no case in which this ends with me taking the awol (not because of the 3 minutes of money, but out of principle) Let me remind you that awol stands for absent without leave, and I had approval to take leave.

Rep has already acknowledged they're prepping for the battle and asked bues for statements (not just for my case) which will be instantly above the ATMs head. The only reason I was posting here was to gather insight on whether this transgression, viewed alongside those others, was grounds for action beyond just resolution of the AWOL.

Maybe the ATM was out of line and maybe he wasn’t. I’m not really concerned with that aspect of your post. My point still stands. Show up to your job on time, on a regular basis, and this doesn’t happen.

If yourself and other controllers werent showing up late plenty of the time then this wouldn’t even be an issue.

People taking advantage of the system on a regular basis is how dumb shit like this happens.

 

[Spaceforce]

This is not a workforce issue. This is a you failing to arrive to work on time issue.

Maybe the ATM was out of line and maybe he wasn’t. I’m not really concerned with that aspect of your post. My point still stands. Show up to your job on time, on a regular basis, and this doesn’t happen.

If yourself and other controllers werent showing up late plenty of the time then this wouldn’t even be an issue.

People taking advantage of the system on a regular basis is how dumb shit like this happens.

I agree we all should be on time to work. But thankfully we have so many options in the contract to provide us from suffering pay cuts. Stuck in traffic? No problem call in and inform them of the situation. If your facility is chill, easy excused absence. Late everyday? Not sure that’s gonna fly.

The point of this whole thing that is being ignored is, he requested LEAVE and it was APPROVED. ATM then CHANGED the APPROVED LEAVE to AWOL. That’s the point. How would you feel, you wanted to take 2 hours of leave on the front, approved, and then find out on your next check atm said “fuck you, here’s AWOL”