Best NY towers to work at

[123atct]

For someone looking to move to the NY/NJ area, which of the three big NY towers are best to work at ? What other smaller towers are worth making the move? Any insight from anyone who has gone through the training programs at any of them would help

 

[WordsTwice]

Westchester absolute country club

 

[Phillytroll69]

Pou

 

[Top5fatcat]

My buddy just quit from TEB he was the rep there back in the 90s He was in on the extra 40% training pay and 20 cip that N90 gets. They promised him TEB would get it too but when the N90 scam was realized it was found out that not enough TEB controllers were donating to the pac so they didn’t get all the extras

Ps. NY is a shit hole communist state. Go to Boston tower if you want real liberty

 

[Bandit117]

Ewr is the only New York area tower running level 11 traffic, the rest are all posers

 

[32andBelow]

Ewr is the only New York area tower running level 11 traffic, the rest are all posers

Is it still way down from Covid?

 

[FightingIrish2012]

My buddy just quit from TEB he was the rep there back in the 90s He was in on the extra 40% training pay and 20 cip that N90 gets. They promised him TEB would get it too but when the N90 scam was realized it was found out that not enough TEB controllers were donating to the pac so they didn’t get all the extras

Ps. NY is a shit hole communist state. Go to Boston tower if you want real liberty

You are right on NY being the shit hole of all states but the Boston metro area mimics NYC now. Remember when the Boston mayor said she would not allow a vaccine passport system in Boston that NYC had because it would disproportionally hurt minorities and people of lower socio-economic status (these groups had lower vaccine rates)? Someone then got to her and within days she installed the same system as NYC and refused to ever comment on her initial statement. So if you are commuting from New Hampshire maybe Boston tower works, if not go to ZBW or A90 (and live in New Hampshire).

 

[rhombus]

Is it still way down from Covid?

Newark is 95% of pre-covid traffic, LGA is about 90%, and JFK is pretty much where they were before

 

[Bandit117]

Newark is 95% of pre-covid traffic, LGA is about 90%, and JFK is pretty much where they were before

So 11, 8, 9. EWR hasn’t really dropped below the buffer, but jfk has been below since 2011 and lga for almost as long. NYC towers are a scam, except Ewr, they actually work the numbers dictated by their level

 

[POINTOUT]

So 11, 8, 9. EWR hasn’t really dropped below the buffer, but jfk has been below since 2011 and lga for almost as long. NYC towers are a scam, except Ewr, they actually work the numbers dictated by their level

You do realize it’s not just traffic count and complexity is factored in right?

 

[rhombus]

You do realize it’s not just traffic count and complexity is factored in right?

True, but all three have similar complexity in terms of intersecting runways, airspace restrictions, etc. LGA just doesn’t have the numbers to hang with the other two

 

[123atct]

LGA has the best success rate so I wonder if that’s because it’s easier or if it’s a culture thing inside the building. JFK has the worst.. EWR not great.. Curious about HPN, do they work pattern traffic or mostly ifr?

 

[RH316]

LGA has the best success rate so I wonder if that’s because it’s easier or if it’s a culture thing inside the building. JFK has the worst.. EWR not great.. Curious about HPN, do they work pattern traffic or mostly ifr?

Been to HPN a few times, know one person who works there currently and a few who worked there in the past. Quite a bit of pattern work, mixed in with their regionals and corporates. Seemed fun to work the traffic when you have a steady final and 4-5 guys closed traffic on the intersecting. If it got crazy with the VFRs you’d give them full stop taxi backs or just kick em out of the airspace and they’d fly north to Poughkeepsie or Danbury. Unfortunately, it’s impossible to live in West Chester County on the salary. Gotta live an hour or so North.

 

[WordsTwice]

LGA has the best success rate so I wonder if that’s because it’s easier or if it’s a culture thing inside the building. JFK has the worst.. EWR not great.. Curious about HPN, do they work pattern traffic or mostly ifr?

We work mostly ifr traffic. Might be a Charlie soon. There’s still plenty of vfrs to make it fun

 

[POINTOUT]

True, but all three have similar complexity in terms of intersecting runways, airspace restrictions, etc. LGA just doesn’t have the numbers to hang with the other two

Lga has 2 runways that intersect, the entire airport fits in one terminal of jfk and runs close to the same amount of traffic as jfk. ATL or DFW who are 12’S run more traffic but have multiple grounds and locals open along with parallels while LGA works ground with 1 person and local with 1 person. There is no comparison. The numbers aren’t there but the complexity is.

 

[Bandit117]

You do realize it’s not just traffic count and complexity is factored in right?

The complexity is factored in the index. You get multipliers for stuff like intersecting runways, lahso, etc. their complexity is factored in already.

What happened was they went crying to the faa when they were below the numbers and complained that if one got downgraded no one would bid that place anymore. The faa and the New York air traffic controllers association agreed and so jfk and lga get to keep pay they are no longer earning.

That’s a thing under the downgrade part of the contract and process, facilities can submit a request to not be downgraded even though you should be.

Lga has 2 runways that intersect, the entire airport fits in one terminal of jfk and runs close to the same amount of traffic as jfk. ATL or DFW who are 12’S run more traffic but have multiple grounds and locals open along with parallels while LGA works ground with 1 person and local with 1 person. There is no comparison. The numbers aren’t there but the complexity is.

And that complexity is factored in to the count already with complexity multipliers. I’m not talking ops numbers, I’m talking count numbers, the TCI index from the faa and their internal site.

 

[rhombus]

Lga has 2 runways that intersect, the entire airport fits in one terminal of jfk and runs close to the same amount of traffic as jfk. ATL or DFW who are 12’S run more traffic but have multiple grounds and locals open along with parallels while LGA works ground with 1 person and local with 1 person. There is no comparison. The numbers aren’t there but the complexity is.

EWR does more IFR and CBA ops than LGA and also has only one ground and one local. It's the busiest 1 LC/1 GC operation in the country and they're barely an 11. It's hard to make the case for LGA not being a 10 or a 9 at the worst. LGA is doing about 80% of the IFR ops of JFK this year and even when you factor in the VFR CBA ops they're still pretty far behind. Hard sell

For someone looking to move to the NY/NJ area, which of the three big NY towers are best to work at ? What other smaller towers are worth making the move? Any insight from anyone who has gone through the training programs at any of them would help

If you want to get your feet wet in the area go to TEB. Level 9 pay for Level 7 traffic plus 10% CIP and NY Locality. You might have marginally cheaper housing options than Westchester and the LI facilities

 

[POINTOUT]

EWR does more IFR and CBA ops than LGA and also has only one ground and one local. It's the busiest 1 LC/1 GC operation in the country and they're barely an 11. It's hard to make the case for LGA not being a 10 or a 9 at the worst. LGA is doing about 80% of the IFR ops of JFK this year and even when you factor in the VFR CBA ops they're still pretty far behind. Hard sell


If you want to get your feet wet in the area go to TEB. Level 9 pay for Level 7 traffic plus 10% CIP and NY Locality. You might have marginally cheaper housing options than Westchester and the LI facilities

LGA isn’t open 24 hours. JFK is. You’re missing a key component. If LGA was 24 hours and had parallels. Of course they would run more traffic but it’s impossible with one in one out.

Also never denied Ewr was the busiest of the 3.

 

[RalphBeast]

So 11, 8, 9. EWR hasn’t really dropped below the buffer, but jfk has been below since 2011 and lga for almost as long. NYC towers are a scam, except Ewr, they actually work the numbers dictated by their level

I don't see how JFK could be a 9. Decent traffic volume, moderately complex runway layout, large mix AC types, having to deal with N90 and other new yorkers, huge quantities foreign pilots that barely speak English... Maybe not 11 numbers but intuitively I don't see how they go below a 10 especially when easier operations like MSP went from 11->10 recently.

 

[Move78]

The complexity is factored in the index. You get multipliers for stuff like intersecting runways, lahso, etc. their complexity is factored in already.

What happened was they went crying to the faa when they were below the numbers and complained that if one got downgraded no one would bid that place anymore. The faa and the New York air traffic controllers association agreed and so jfk and lga get to keep pay they are no longer earning.

That’s a thing under the downgrade part of the contract and process, facilities can submit a request to not be downgraded even though you should be.


And that complexity is factored in to the count already with complexity multipliers. I’m not talking ops numbers, I’m talking count numbers, the TCI index from the faa and their internal site.

Complexity is factored in but in many cases it’s only technically factored in. Meaning 2 airports may have identical complexity multipliers but the configurations could be drastically different difficulties. It’s very not perfect.