DCA what is going on

[Unable is a full sentence]

Oh man...I've seen some people with a struggling path back and forth between low level places to high level places, back to low level places, and then ultimately land in places like DCA.

 

[the inquirer]

NTI isn’t the problem. NTI was actually good. People who are in training should constantly be training.

Just talked about the NTI with my facrep and Santa. Was told that 80% of the trbs nowadays are because people exhaust their hours training on zero traffic. So it’s actually not good. You also get ATMs who want to be overachievers and look good to their bosses and require 4 hours per day of training. Not good.

 

[slowtation]

Just talked about the NTI with my facrep and Santa. Was told that 80% of the trbs nowadays are because people exhaust their hours training on zero traffic. So it’s actually not good. You also get ATMs who want to be overachievers and look good to their bosses and require 4 hours per day of training. Not good.

That’s the facility and local NATCA’s fault for improperly following the NTI.

 

[ClearanceClarence]

The premise behind the NTI isn’t bad. If you don’t have a requirement to train, some facilities never will. The problem is in the broadness of the initiative. A blanket mandate of 3 hours a day is inevitably going to force trainees to sit on worthless traffic. I’ve seen some people plugged in at 10PM with 0 aircraft on the scope just because the sup wants to hit the NTI numbers. That doesn’t benefit anyone. They need to adjust the initiative to call for a minimum number of hours per week, or maybe even per month, and stipulate that something like 70-80% of those hours must be on moderate or greater traffic volume.

 

[DankVectorz]

The premise behind the NTI isn’t bad. If you don’t have a requirement to train, some facilities never will. The problem is in the broadness of the initiative. A blanket mandate of 3 hours a day is inevitably going to force trainees to sit on worthless traffic. I’ve seen some people plugged in at 10PM with 0 aircraft on the scope just because the sup wants to hit the NTI numbers. That doesn’t benefit anyone. They need to adjust the initiative to call for a minimum number of hours per week, or maybe even per month, and stipulate that something like 70-80% of those hours must be on moderate or greater traffic volume.

That’s an improper implementation of NTI. It specifically says it does not mean to train just for the sake of hitting the daily training hours.

 

[KP-ATC]

The premise behind the NTI isn’t bad. If you don’t have a requirement to train, some facilities never will. The problem is in the broadness of the initiative. A blanket mandate of 3 hours a day is inevitably going to force trainees to sit on worthless traffic. I’ve seen some people plugged in at 10PM with 0 aircraft on the scope just because the sup wants to hit the NTI numbers. That doesn’t benefit anyone. They need to adjust the initiative to call for a minimum number of hours per week, or maybe even per month, and stipulate that something like 70-80% of those hours must be on moderate or greater traffic volume.

USAF counts training days - not hours. It worked well.

 

[ajmezz]

The premise behind the NTI isn’t bad. If you don’t have a requirement to train, some facilities never will. The problem is in the broadness of the initiative. A blanket mandate of 3 hours a day is inevitably going to force trainees to sit on worthless traffic. I’ve seen some people plugged in at 10PM with 0 aircraft on the scope just because the sup wants to hit the NTI numbers. That doesn’t benefit anyone. They need to adjust the initiative to call for a minimum number of hours per week, or maybe even per month, and stipulate that something like 70-80% of those hours must be on moderate or greater traffic volume.

Agreed. There needs to be the ability to tailor it to each facility. I’ve argued against having trainees sit on position on ifr days (vfr tower so no traffic) bc it’s wasting their hours. Then I get the responses “they have plenty, it’ll be fine” or “they’ll just get more if they run out.” It’s very frustrating dealing with it so management can sit pretty in their weekly district meeting and say “look look we hit our numbers!”

 

[ClearanceClarence]

That’s an improper implementation of NTI. It specifically says it does not mean to train just for the sake of hitting the daily training hours.

But that’s the way it’s been implemented across the NAS at all types of facilities so there needs to be specific guidance to prevent it from happening.

 

[DankVectorz]

But that’s the way it’s been implemented across the NAS at all types of facilities so there needs to be specific guidance to prevent it from happening.

I mean it already specifically says not to do that. Management just needs to be less retarded which is a whole other problem.

 

[HurryUpandWait]

NTI isn’t the problem. NTI was actually good. People who are in training should constantly be training.

For high level facilities that is correct but not for mid and low level facilities where traffic levels fluctuates.

That’s an improper implementation of NTI. It specifically says it does not mean to train just for the sake of hitting the daily training hours.

Yeah this is NATCAs response when local chapters reach out. So then the local union relays this to the local management and they don’t give a fuck and tell them they have to meet the NTI

I mean it already specifically says not to do that. Management just needs to be less retarded which is a whole other problem.

We’ve been told by management the NTI impediments aren’t an excuse for not meeting the NTI and we will meet the NTI.

 

[DankVectorz]

We’ve been told by management the NTI impediments aren’t an excuse for not meeting the NTI and we will meet the NTI

So like I said, it’s a management stupidity issue.

 

[Soul_Controller]

If your facility is too dysfunctional to do something as simple as fixing its target hours, then it has more problems than the NTI. When's the last time you rewrote your SOP, or updated your classroom curriculum, or updated your sims? You're the problem, not the NTI.

 

[Move78]

The premise behind the NTI isn’t bad. If you don’t have a requirement to train, some facilities never will. The problem is in the broadness of the initiative. A blanket mandate of 3 hours a day is inevitably going to force trainees to sit on worthless traffic. I’ve seen some people plugged in at 10PM with 0 aircraft on the scope just because the sup wants to hit the NTI numbers. That doesn’t benefit anyone. They need to adjust the initiative to call for a minimum number of hours per week, or maybe even per month, and stipulate that something like 70-80% of those hours must be on moderate or greater traffic volume.

There is no such mandate. The problem is your managers are throwing trainees under the bus to impress their boss to protect their yearly pmas.

 

[ajmezz]

If your facility is too dysfunctional to do something as simple as fixing its target hours, then it has more problems than the NTI. When's the last time you rewrote your SOP, or updated your classroom curriculum, or updated your sims? You're the problem, not the NTI.

Shit take is shit.

 

[Soul_Controller]

Shit take is shit.

I know I know, everything is everyone else's fault. Air traffic motto

 

[the inquirer]

They need to adjust the initiative to call for a minimum number of hours per week, or maybe even per month

The NTI is weekly, not daily. 15 hours a week if no positions, 12 hours a week if you have one or more positions.

 

[ajmezz]

I know I know, everything is everyone else's fault. Air traffic motto

It's more about the thought process of "just increase target hours" instead of figuring out how to make it work at each facility instead of a blanket "get x hours daily/weekly even if no traffic." Most facility target hours have worked just fine for years, but you're seeing an increase in needless TRB's due to the bad implementation of the NTI to make people look good by saying "we hit our hours, give me a bigger bonus now!" It's a waste of everyone's overall time since the TRB will see 50%+ hours of no/light traffic and will hand out more hours like candy. I remember being at a facility prior to the NTI being established and sometimes would only get an hour or two a week, so I see the need for it, but a one size fits all approach is not the answer. It's easy to plan for your larger facilities that see the same banks every day, but not so much at vfr/seasonal facilties.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

It's more about the thought process of "just increase target hours" instead of figuring out how to make it work at each facility instead of a blanket "get x hours daily/weekly even if no traffic." Most facility target hours have worked just fine for years, but you're seeing an increase in needless TRB's due to the bad implementation of the NTI to make people look good by saying "we hit our hours, give me a bigger bonus now!" It's a waste of everyone's overall time since the TRB will see 50%+ hours of no/light traffic and will hand out more hours like candy. I remember being at a facility prior to the NTI being established and sometimes would only get an hour or two a week, so I see the need for it, but a one size fits all approach is not the answer. It's easy to plan for your larger facilities that see the same banks every day, but not so much at vfr/seasonal facilties.

Exactly this. The facilities across the NAS are so different from one another in nearly every facet that one size fits all will NEVER work well. Not just NTI. Keep this in mind with the upcoming new fatigue rules. They will be one size fits all and they will not work well everywhere.

 

[ATOH]

You can say over and over again that the NTI is a goal and not a mandate. Management won't stop treating it as a mandate. My facility has daily call in/holdover to ensure trainees get their 3 hours. The easy solution is to have each facility determine its own goals and also what constitutes quality training.

We also need facilities to stop being reluctant about cutting the cord on trainees who clearly can't do the job. Forcing worthless trainees to run out their hours (to just get extended hours) not only waste everyone's time (trainers, trainee, etc) it is also pretty damn demoralizing to the rest of the workforce.

 

[SquawkHijack]

NTI isn’t the problem. NTI was actually good. People who are in training should constantly be training.

It sucks for lower level facs that don’t have consistent traffic. Makes trainees waste hours. NTI isn’t terrible but would be a lot better if it were tailored a little more to lows/mids in some areas.