Facility Downgrades / Upgrades

CaptainObvious

Forum Sage
Messages
660
It was confirmed it’s impossible to count center traffic. I know we are about to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the moon landing, but come on man, why the fuck would you ever expect mankind to be able to count how many planes pass through a bunch of radar scopes in a building, technology ain’t limitless.
They sure can hammer you when the snitch logs your 4.9 mile bubble bouncer
 

PushingTin

Forum Sage
Messages
367
Meet in the middle at 11.
I think its a travesty that NATCA will not allow members to make different pay within the same building, but will allow hundreds of buildings to be on totally different pay scales governed by different rules; or in some cases none at all. All non Center controllers are de facto B scale. Bad!
 

ATCNOMAD

Trusted Contributor
Messages
133
I think its a travesty that NATCA will not allow members to make different pay within the same building, but will allow hundreds of buildings to be on totally different pay scales governed by different rules; or in some cases none at all. All non Center controllers are de facto B scale. Bad!
I was obviously just joking lol. I have no idea how centers are rated. The training manager at ZLA said they were upgraded from an 11 to level 12 in the early 2000s. Like 2003 or something. Thats the only time I've ever heard of a center going up or down. I know consolidated TRACONs have a huge difference in traffic volume & complexity area by area and it causes a "rif" in the building because they all get paid the same. I haven't heard of that being a thing at centers nearly as much though
 

Move78

Forum Sage
Messages
823
I think its a travesty that NATCA will not allow members to make different pay within the same building, but will allow hundreds of buildings to be on totally different pay scales governed by different rules; or in some cases none at all. All non Center controllers are de facto B scale. Bad!
Who let Milo on the board?
 

fivebyfive

Trusted Contributor
Messages
40
To change the subject, it's refreshing to see so many facilities being upgraded or returning back to previously held levels.
It definitely seems like traffic is trending up.
 

SwampDonkey

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
72
Facility
ZHU Houston Center
I was obviously just joking lol. I have no idea how centers are rated. The training manager at ZLA said they were upgraded from an 11 to level 12 in the early 2000s. Like 2003 or something. Thats the only time I've ever heard of a center going up or down. I know consolidated TRACONs have a huge difference in traffic volume & complexity area by area and it causes a "rif" in the building because they all get paid the same. I haven't heard of that being a thing at centers nearly as much though
That’s because there is not a current way to count traffic on ERAM. They are developing something but who knows when it will be ready. We have been in arbitration at ZHU for level 12 for over a decade. They are currently attempting to validate our traffic count based on traffic data from the mid 2000’s.
 

GulfBravoPapa

Forum Sage
Messages
709
Rumor is they are looking at downgrading M98 to a 10, thus making them the only approach in the country at a lower level than their tower.
 

mrobs15

Trusted Contributor
I ♥ pointSixtyFive
Messages
285
does tcip rate tracons too? never actually tried to look one up.
 

Homsar

Trusted Contributor
Messages
168
They do, but I don’t recall M98 being below the buffer, I know MSP was though. I haven’t looked at it in a few weeks so I could be misremembering.
 

Oz3l0t

Member
FAA
Messages
43
Facility
M98 Minneapolis Tracon
They do, but I don’t recall M98 being below the buffer, I know MSP was though. I haven’t looked at it in a few weeks so I could be misremembering.
We have been below since November, the NVT has reached out to us requesting the stuff they need for the next meeting. MSP Tower is below, but only for two months, I'm assuming they are not much father behind us.
 

PushingTin

Forum Sage
Messages
367
Downgrades are savaging the workforce! Its life changing for the bad. Meanwhile certain special facilities are untouchable? the Boston Tea Party was thrown over less serious shit than this. makes me MAD to hear about downgrrades!!!

M98 = canary in the coal mine. If MOST non giant big boy facilities slowly downgrade, the payscales i say are obsolete. REDO CONTRACT. Stop losing, start winning.

 
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Stinger

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
1,134
Downgrades all effective July 21, 2019:
TRI from a 6 to a 5.
LIT from an 8 to a 7.
ACY from a 7 to a 6.
 

FoggyWindow

Member
FAA
Messages
56
Facility
ZHU Houston Center
I heard ZBW was on the cusp as well and that they finished behind one of the lvl 10 ARTCC's in traffic count. I have not seen numbers or anything to justify it.

That’s because there is not a current way to count traffic on ERAM. They are developing something but who knows when it will be ready. We have been in arbitration at ZHU for level 12 for over a decade. They are currently attempting to validate our traffic count based on traffic data from the mid 2000’s.
I think our case is gonna set the precedent for how ARTCC traffic is counted for everybody else.
 

ehmeye

Trusted Contributor
Messages
58
I heard ZBW was on the cusp as well and that they finished behind one of the lvl 10 ARTCC's in traffic count. I have not seen numbers or anything to justify it.



I think our case is gonna set the precedent for how ARTCC traffic is counted for everybody else.
I don't think what happens with us will affect other facilities. They are building a tool to count ARTCC traffic (I believe its called ABACUS or something) and when it's implemented they're going to validate all ARTCC traffic with that, including ours. What they're doing with our grievance is running a validation counting our historic traffic with a specially designed system with HOST data.
 
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