January 2020 NEST Panel

Here's my situation. I washed out from a level 8 tower. Previously, I was at a level 7 up/down but had to do a medical hardship. At that level 7, I got qualified in the tower on LC,GC/FD but didn't get to start CIC training. In radar, I got FD and started 1 scope but training was stopped, when the ATM got wind that I was going to hardship.

I haven't got anything officially but I'm being told by my Fac Rep that on Monday I will be receiving the decision for removal or to accept an AT 2154 position. Apparently this is also occurring to a few others from adjacent facilities and my rep also mention that some he knows got the same notice but I don't know that persons background/situation.

I wasn't expecting this as the outcome, I was expecting a list of low level tower only. The TRB, ATM and Fac Rep all recommended retention. I realize it doesn't mean much to most in the FAA but I worked several DOD ATCTs through out a 10 year period and did qualify in a level 5 FAA ATCT, level 7 without the TRACON. So my options are accept the AT 2154 or removal. If I turn down the AT 2154 position, NATCA can try to do a rebuttal but it not guaranteed to keep me employed as a 2152 and I will no longer have the option for the AT 2154 position. The removal process will start and then I can try to fight it out by hiring an attorney and going through the merit systems protection board/MSPB after I'm terminated from the agency.

I'd appreciate any suggestions because I don't really know what is my best approach to this.

Hope those of you waiting get better news.
 
JohnDoh said:
Here's my situation. I washed out from a level 8 tower. Previously, I was at a level 7 up/down but had to do a medical hardship. At that level 7, I got qualified in the tower on LC,GC/FD but didn't get to start CIC training. In radar, I got FD and started 1 scope but training was stopped, when the ATM got wind that I was going to hardship.

I haven't got anything officially but I'm being told by my Fac Rep that on Monday I will be receiving the decision for removal or to accept an AT 2154 position. Apparently this is also occurring to a few others from adjacent facilities and my rep also mention that some he knows got the same notice but I don't know that persons background/situation.

I wasn't expecting this as the outcome, I was expecting a list of low level tower only. The TRB, ATM and Fac Rep all recommended retention. I realize it doesn't mean much to most in the FAA but I worked several DOD ATCTs through out a 10 year period and did qualify in a level 5 FAA ATCT, level 7 without the TRACON. So my options are accept the AT 2154 or removal. If I turn down the AT 2154 position, NATCA can try to do a rebuttal but it not guaranteed to keep me employed as a 2152 and I will no longer have the option for the AT 2154 position. The removal process will start and then I can try to fight it out by hiring an attorney and going through the merit systems protection board/MSPB after I'm terminated from the agency.

I'd appreciate any suggestions because I don't really know what is my best approach to this.

Hope those of you waiting get better news.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately you didn't CPC at the level 8, not did you CPC at the level 7. Two failures in a row (and hardshipping before reaching CPC is considered a failure) has always carried the possibility of not being retained. The FAA does not concern itself with military or DOD time. So in the FAA's eyes you only ever certified at a level 5 and then failed twice. While they could have potentially offered you level 4/5 towers it is possible that they're all fully staffed. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it doesn't look good for you. I suppose in theory if you were certified at your 5 for more than a year maybe you could resign and reapply to a prior experience bid... Or I suppose you could using your DOD time. Not sure if they would accept you though.
 
He doesn’t need a year cpc for a prior bid as long as he has 52 weeks post cto/approach somewhere along the line. I’m pretty sure he could try for cpc reinstatement since he was a cpc at one point. Don’t know how the failures factor in to that equation though.
 
GulfBravoPapa said:
Unfortunately you didn't CPC at the level 8, not did you CPC at the level 7. Two failures in a row (and hardshipping before reaching CPC is considered a failure) has always carried the possibility of not being retained. The FAA does not concern itself with military or DOD time. So in the FAA's eyes you only ever certified at a level 5 and then failed twice. While they could have potentially offered you level 4/5 towers it is possible that they're all fully staffed. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it doesn't look good for you. I suppose in theory if you were certified at your 5 for more than a year maybe you could resign and reapply to a prior experience bid... Or I suppose you could using your DOD time. Not sure if they would accept you though.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your reply. I was initially assigned to a place that had bad air quality/pollution and developed severe health problems because of it. I had to be on meds that made me lose my medical. I wasn't going to be able to get my medical back till I came off the meds but I needed to be on them while I was in that region, which is why I had to hardship. I didn't know that a hardship was considered a failure, do you know where I can find a reference for that?

Also should I take the AT 2154 position, do you know if I will be able to apply for 2152 positions. I need 5 more years for 20 and I'm trying to figure out my best option.
 
I was also given retention to FSS, but no FSS positions available. So removal from ATC. They offered to let me potentially transfer to a center to be a 2154 Flight Data Communications Specialist. I was AG sent to a level 6 up/down and didn't certify on local. Both ATM and FACREP recommended lower level facility but this is where I'm at now as well.
 
cmarie90 said:
I was also given retention to FSS, but no FSS positions available. So removal from ATC. They offered to let me potentially transfer to a center to be a 2154 Flight Data Communications Specialist. I was AG sent to a level 6 up/down and didn't certify on local. Both ATM and FACREP recommended lower level facility but this is where I'm at now as well.
Click to expand...
Data specialist at a center would have to be better than a remote Alaska FSS location. Might be worth checking out. Easy enough to bail if you don’t like it.
 
Sorry to hear these results, maybe they are getting tougher in the NEST and that’s why they are not posting results publicly as easily as before. For the guy five years from retirement, might as well go 2154 Air Traffic Assistant to get the retirement if you wish. Just be aware you can’t get back to ATC from that unless you apply for a brand new hiring bid, they shut you out like the FSS people. It also sucks for the hardship/washout guy, but I believe there is a line somewhere that says “failure to certify through local control at a low level facility can result in termination”. The agency will probably stand by that more then debating if the hardship “counts” as starting two washouts in a row.
 
Anecdotally it seems there is a lot more termination of training failures recently. ?
as a heads up, if you resign after being notified of termination it’s the same as being terminated in regards to future federal applications. im not sure of the impact of being offered another position in lieu of termination, if it was turned down. I’d be interested in hearing how that works.
 
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Is 2154 both flight service and flight data?
Is it the same good time?
I truthfully don't know but if I had 5 years until a pension I'd tough it out anywhere
 
I’m sorry to hear about your situation, hoping for the best outcome for you. Hope you can get those last 5yrs without much trouble.

Question for the group. If a current CPC ERRs to a new facility and washes there, can they return to their old facility or do they go directly to the nest? The only way you “may” be terminated is having 2 failures back to back, without CPC status in between. If you CPC again somewhere (even previous facility) it resets the 2 strike rule? Am I understanding this correctly?
 
caprisun said:
I’m sorry to hear about your situation, hoping for the best outcome for you. Hope you can get those last 5yrs without much trouble.

Question for the group. If a current CPC ERRs to a new facility and washes there, can they return to their old facility or do they go directly to the nest? The only way you “may” be terminated is having 2 failures back to back, without CPC status in between. If you CPC again somewhere (even previous facility) it resets the 2 strike rule? Am I understanding this correctly?
Click to expand...
Any facility certification resets the fake 2 strikes rule. If you transfer as a CPC and wash or withdraw you can go back to your old facility if it is not above 100% projected staffing. If it is you go to the NEST, and you can choose to go to the NEST as well (and if your old facility is not at 100% projected staffing it should also be on your NEST list).
 
caprisun said:
I’m sorry to hear about your situation, hoping for the best outcome for you. Hope you can get those last 5yrs without much trouble.

Question for the group. If a current CPC ERRs to a new facility and washes there, can they return to their old facility or do they go directly to the nest? The only way you “may” be terminated is having 2 failures back to back, without CPC status in between. If you CPC again somewhere (even previous facility) it resets the 2 strike rule? Am I understanding this correctly?
Click to expand...

You're looking for the "fast track" for returning to previous facilities below 100% projected.
 
FightingIrish2012 said:
Any facility certification resets the fake 2 strikes rule. If you transfer as a CPC and wash or withdraw you can go back to your old facility if it is not above 100% projected staffing. If it is you go to the NEST, and you can choose to go to the NEST as well (and if your old facility is not at 100% projected staffing it should also be on your NEST list).
Click to expand...

What do you mean by “fake”? I assume the agency has a work around for this?
 
boots said:
Not making info public because they have to make room for hundreds of washouts from n90
Click to expand...

They just did this to an N90 washout as well. He was a prior military controller with radar experience and a CTO, N90 was his first FAA facility, he washed out on the floor and the only things on his list were 2154 jobs at centers. Pretty crazy.
 

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