Shoot The Breeze 3.0

[AB19]

Notice how you keep getting mad because I am not answering the question ??

Why would I get mad over a republican who’s viewpoints won’t be elected as president ever again? You’re a dying breed, can’t be angry at a dying dog

 

[Kat13]

Why would I get mad over a republican who’s viewpoints won’t be elected as president ever again? You’re a dying breed, can’t be angry at a dying dog

Your a dying breed very very soon….

 

[Peter Gibbons]

I believe bodily autonomy stops when you can infect others.

I'd disagree, but state again if society wants to treat your body autonomy choice by casting you out from your job, or say.. making you a low priority in a triage situation in the event you get sick vs a vaxxed person that's a choice you make.

How many times have you taken a position from someone sick? No one is giving punitive actions to employees for not getting flu shots. Flu is a huge risk factor for the elderly and young children. We've just kind of dealt with that one since the dawn of time.

, but I don’t think you have the right to not get a vaccine unless you have actual medical reasons to not get it.

Anyone can deny themselves any vaccine they want, situations where it's a requirement, ie military service, foreign travel public schools etc. Are all things you can choose to not participate in. Why should this one be any different? Now again, employers or whatever requiring it on a societal level are different than rights. The fact that you are saying rights I find disturbing.

You don’t have the right to infect yourself with anthrax and spread it to others.

That's called bioterrorism. And conflating intentional infection of people with a disease that kills 20 to 80 percent of the people who get it with incidental exposure that kills less than .5 percent is..... asinine. I'm not saying covid isn't a big deal but that's hyperbolic AF.

Now sure you could say people can just wear a mask and it’s okay, but we’ve proven as a society we are unwilling or not caring enough to do that

correct. And that all stems from mistrust in the institutions who are supposed to be looking out for our best interests after years of shady shit that prove that many times they do otherwise IMHO. the fix for that isn't mandating people put things in thier bodies they don't want to. In fact that'll have the opposite affect.

Since this ship had sailed, my opinion is learn from it, deal with it as best we can and work to fix the problems that caused it to begin with when it comes to the mistrust. That starts with education and critical thinking skills and rebuilding the broken trust, not ramming needles down peoples throats.

 

[AB19]

I'd disagree, but state again if society wants to treat your body autonomy choice by casting you out from your job, or say.. making you a low priority in a triage situation in the event you get sick vs a vaxxed person that's a choice you make.

How many times have you taken a position from someone sick? No one is giving punitive actions to employees for not getting flu shots. Flu is a huge risk factor for the elderly and young children. We've just kind of dealt with that one since the dawn of time.



Anyone can deny themselves any vaccine they want, situations where it's a requirement, ie military service, foreign travel public schools etc. Are all things you can choose to not participate in. Why should this one be any different? Now again, employers or whatever requiring it on a societal level are different than rights. The fact that you are saying rights I find disturbing.


That's called bioterrorism. And conflating intentional infection of people with a disease that kills 20 to 80 percent of the people who get it with incidental exposure that kills less than .5 percent is..... asinine. I'm not saying covid isn't a big deal but that's hyperbolic AF.



correct. And that all stems from mistrust in the institutions who are supposed to be looking out for our best interests after years of shady shit that prove that many times they do otherwise IMHO. the fix for that isn't mandating people put things in thier bodies they don't want to. In fact that'll have the opposite affect.

Since this ship had sailed, my opinion is learn from it, deal with it as best we can and work to fix the problems that caused it to begin with when it comes to the mistrust. That starts with education and critical thinking skills and rebuilding the broken trust, not ramming needles down peoples throats.

At what point should people not have the choice? I don’t think you should be able to go somewhere where TB is more common without a vaccine, I think it’s a crime that some parents don’t vaccinate their kids for small pox or measles before sending them to school, but I feel like most people are fine with those vaccines but not others.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

At what point should people not have the choice? I don’t think you should be able to go somewhere where TB is more common without a vaccine

If you are going some place where a disease is common, many times its required for entry or a visa. Again, you can always choose not to go, there's no mandate I go stay in a mud hovel in rural India. Even if it's not a requirement, should you? Absolutely. Should customs quarantine you on the way back in if you've been exposed to something and you aren't? Ya maybe (honestly not sure of the requirements on that but I'm sure they exist, even if they aren't used often). This is all very different than mandating citizens do it as a requirement for living without legal action here though. Again, I separate social policies from rights here.

As far as what's the point of where I personally would be okay with it..... I don't know but it's not something with a .5 percent death rate. Like your anthrax example, or smallpox popping back up somehow..... then we definitely can have that discussion and I wouldn't bat an eye. Again, not that .5 percent doesn't matter or is insignificant or it needs to be some astronomical percentage on the flip side of the coin, but there's a balance to be struck there and I don't think covid is it.

, I think it’s a crime that some parents don’t vaccinate their kids for small pox or measles before sending them to school,

No one has gotten a smallpox vaccine in the US for school since probably the 70s or so. I agree, but proof of vaccination is kind of the norm for school enrollment these days is it not? My kid isn't old enough for that yet I don't know but I seem to remember getting hep a/b or whatever before entering junior high as it became a requirement. As far as it being criminal in a literal legal sense, ya I guess you could make the argument it's some form of child endangerment, but that's a slick ass slope too as much as I disagree with anti Vax parents. You can't stop that anymore than you can stop child abuse of other sorts or filling thier heads with nonsense ideas in fundy churches and such.

but I feel like most people are fine with those vaccines but not others.

Yes, this is part of this whole asinine problem that I don't get either.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

 

[AB19]

If you are going some place where a disease is common, many times its required for entry or a visa. Again, you can always choose not to go, there's no mandate I go stay in a mud hovel in rural India. Even if it's not a requirement, should you? Absolutely. Should customs quarantine you on the way back in if you've been exposed to something and you aren't? Ya maybe (honestly not sure of the requirements on that but I'm sure they exist, even if they aren't used often). This is all very different than mandating citizens do it as a requirement for living without legal action here though. Again, I separate social policies from rights here.

As far as what's the point of where I personally would be okay with it..... I don't know but it's not something with a .5 percent death rate. Like your anthrax example, or smallpox popping back up somehow..... then we definitely can have that discussion and I wouldn't bat an eye. Again, not that .5 percent doesn't matter or is insignificant or it needs to be some astronomical percentage on the flip side of the coin, but there's a balance to be struck there and I don't think covid is it.


No one has gotten a smallpox vaccine in the US for school since probably the 70s or so. I agree, but proof of vaccination is kind of the norm for school enrollment these days is it not? My kid isn't old enough for that yet I don't know but I seem to remember getting hep a/b or whatever before entering junior high as it became a requirement. As far as it being criminal in a literal legal sense, ya I guess you could make the argument it's some form of child endangerment, but that's a slick ass slope too as much as I disagree with anti Vax parents. You can't stop that anymore than you can stop child abuse of other sorts or filling thier heads with nonsense ideas in fundy churches and such.


Yes, this is part of this whole asinine problem that I don't get either.

I think only five states require vaccines for kids as a law but I may be wrong about that, again, I think it’s hard to justify letting people do things that can be detrimental to society, the individual should have no priority over the rest of society. But it probably does make me a hypocrite if I’m for people being able to do drugs in a safe setting for addiction. I’d go as far to say corn syrup should be illegal before most drugs but

 

[Here We Go Again]

Yeah We’re not being physically restrained to a chair and stabbed with a needle, but the choices are Get vaccinated, or Don’t and lose your job. When you’re putting food on the table for your family and paying the mortgage with that salary what choice do you really have? Again, put the legality aside. That’s not a decision anyone should make but the person getting the vaccine.

The controllers in 82 walked out for far less. We’ve become pansies, and the military doesn’t want it either, so they won’t be replacing us, they’ll be outside with us. Make the sups work the traffic lol good luck

Around 3:00 mark we can reduce the population growth by doing a “good job with vaccines” Bill Gates

 

[32andBelow]

In this situation, “Doing the right thing” is subjective. What’s right for you isn’t right for 300 million other people.

Unless your actually allergic then getting the shot is the right thing.

Question....can you be in the military and be a
conscientious objector...be considered for non combatant jobs? IF SO...then why should controllers be forced to make a choice with....jab or job? I'm genuinely asking and don't know.

Well they can’t get out of all the vaccines in the military

 

[ZappBand69]

My NATCA thread is pure trolling, but the following I wish to honestly share.

I sincerely hope it doesn't come down to firings. I just want to be left alone by politics, plug in, work traffic, and go home. It is a pity that there is so much external noise infecting the operations.

I have enjoyed my time in ATC. I've worked with a few morons, but I've worked with WAY more awesome controllers that cared about the job. I have gotten along with most people on a personal level, and gotten along with everyone in the ops area, as it should be. Shame on the external noise that is splitting us apart.

I don't believe that any of the data for/against the COVID vax is 100% accurate. We live in the age of the absence of truth.


For the people already COVID vaxxed - you made a choice and that is the way it should be! I wish you good health and a successful career.

For those without the COVID vax that comply to keep their job - I wish you good health and a successful career. I hope you can be happy with your decision, and not regret that you gave in. Since you didn't stand up for your personal choice, I doubt you will ever stand up to anything else. When it came to a tough choice you took the safe/easy route. Fortune does not favor you.

For those that aren't going to get the vax - Welcome to the club. Get another job, and be a success. Be so successful that if the FAA calls you back apologizing, you can tell them "no thanks, I'm happier/doing better with my new gig". Don't look back, and no matter your financial outcome, you stood up for something and no one can EVER take that away from you.

Those eligible to retire - THE REST OF US ENVY THE CRAP OUTTA YOU!

I hope my exception to the mandate is approved. I hope the divided USA looks at each other and realizes we have to coexist. In the meantime I'll go to work and do my job. The pilots don't care about my issues. My trainee wants to get constructive OJT instruction and certify. Still I may be fired. I have family, mortgage, etc. I'm not financially prepared. But this is actually one of the easiest decisions I've ever made. Good luck everybody.

 

[AB19]

My NATCA thread is pure trolling, but the following I wish to honestly share.

I sincerely hope it doesn't come down to firings. I just want to be left alone by politics, plug in, work traffic, and go home. It is a pity that there is so much external noise infecting the operations.

I have enjoyed my time in ATC. I've worked with a few morons, but I've worked with WAY more awesome controllers that cared about the job. I have gotten along with most people on a personal level, and gotten along with everyone in the ops area, as it should be. Shame on the external noise that is splitting us apart.

I don't believe that any of the data for/against the COVID vax is 100% accurate. We live in the age of the absence of truth.


For the people already COVID vaxxed - you made a choice and that is the way it should be! I wish you good health and a successful career.

For those without the COVID vax that comply to keep their job - I wish you good health and a successful career. I hope you can be happy with your decision, and not regret that you gave in. Since you didn't stand up for your personal choice, I doubt you will ever stand up to anything else. When it came to a tough choice you took the safe/easy route. Fortune does not favor you.

For those that aren't going to get the vax - Welcome to the club. Get another job, and be a success. Be so successful that if the FAA calls you back apologizing, you can tell them "no thanks, I'm happier/doing better with my new gig". Don't look back, and no matter your financial outcome, you stood up for something and no one can EVER take that away from you.

Those eligible to retire - THE REST OF US ENVY THE CRAP OUTTA YOU!

I hope my exception to the mandate is approved. I hope the divided USA looks at each other and realizes we have to coexist. In the meantime I'll go to work and do my job. The pilots don't care about my issues. My trainee wants to get constructive OJT instruction and certify. Still I may be fired. I have family, mortgage, etc. I'm not financially prepared. But this is actually one of the easiest decisions I've ever made. Good luck everybody.

McDonalds is hiring!

 

[ZappBand69]

McDonalds is hiring!

Dude I will be working there the minute I'm fired! Seriously, the day I'm canned I will have another job and it will likely be shit! But I will find something else. To me there is no political alliance with this issue, it is about my choice. I have domain over my body, period!

Look around you and see how many people somehow exist, pay bills, and raise families despite not having a federal job ! That will be me!

I have no real backup job, I only have the fact that I work my but off. So I WILL stay alive, keep the kid fed/happy, survive, and be a free man, if only in my own head.

I can be the world's happiest trashman. I don't care!

 

[AB19]

Dude I will be working there the minute I'm fired! Seriously, the day I'm canned I will have another job and it will likely be shit! But I will find something else. To me there is no political alliance with this issue, it is about my choice. I have domain over my body, period!

Look around you and see how many people somehow exist, pay bills, and raise families despite not having a federal job ! That will be me!

I have no real backup job, I only have the fact that I work my but off. So I WILL stay alive, keep the kid fed/happy, survive, and be a free man, if only in my own head.

I can be the world's happiest trashman. I don't care!

You may be dumb as shit but at least you're committed to what you believe in! Godspeed

 

[32andBelow]

My NATCA thread is pure trolling, but the following I wish to honestly share.

I sincerely hope it doesn't come down to firings. I just want to be left alone by politics, plug in, work traffic, and go home. It is a pity that there is so much external noise infecting the operations.

I have enjoyed my time in ATC. I've worked with a few morons, but I've worked with WAY more awesome controllers that cared about the job. I have gotten along with most people on a personal level, and gotten along with everyone in the ops area, as it should be. Shame on the external noise that is splitting us apart.

I don't believe that any of the data for/against the COVID vax is 100% accurate. We live in the age of the absence of truth.


For the people already COVID vaxxed - you made a choice and that is the way it should be! I wish you good health and a successful career.

For those without the COVID vax that comply to keep their job - I wish you good health and a successful career. I hope you can be happy with your decision, and not regret that you gave in. Since you didn't stand up for your personal choice, I doubt you will ever stand up to anything else. When it came to a tough choice you took the safe/easy route. Fortune does not favor you.

For those that aren't going to get the vax - Welcome to the club. Get another job, and be a success. Be so successful that if the FAA calls you back apologizing, you can tell them "no thanks, I'm happier/doing better with my new gig". Don't look back, and no matter your financial outcome, you stood up for something and no one can EVER take that away from you.

Those eligible to retire - THE REST OF US ENVY THE CRAP OUTTA YOU!

I hope my exception to the mandate is approved. I hope the divided USA looks at each other and realizes we have to coexist. In the meantime I'll go to work and do my job. The pilots don't care about my issues. My trainee wants to get constructive OJT instruction and certify. Still I may be fired. I have family, mortgage, etc. I'm not financially prepared. But this is actually one of the easiest decisions I've ever made. Good luck everybody.

Getting a vaccine isn’t fucking political

 

[AB19]

Getting a vaccine isn’t fucking political

Neither is global warming or abortion but that didn't stop the right from making it one

 

[ZappBand69]

33andabove: I agree with you, the COVID vax (as it's own entity), is not political. It's a vax that was made by professionals! I wish there was long term data on it. That data won't exist for a while. My beliefs are firm on the vaccines. I only said "politics" once in my original post, you can change that to "administrative". Registered independant here, yes we still exist.

AB19.5: If am am poor, old, and realize I made a huge mistake, I will know I still stuck to my guns. Yes being wrong is a possibility! Good luck to you as well. I mean it when I said it, the people we work traffic with are overall awesome. I hope your career goes as you want. I'd lie if I said I won't miss it, it's all I know.

(I could be wrong, maybe we have an ex-medical pro/med sceintist ATC'r in our midst) None of us on the forum are experts on the COVID vax or COVID. We are controllers! We are all parroting crap we heard on the news and on (the most perfect source of information) the INTERNET.

Either side can be wrong, only time will tell. Life has been "interesting" for me, but it's been a hell of a ride. Somewhere along the way I learned humility (the banned word in ATC). I pray that the nation can find out what that is.

 

[32andBelow]

33andabove: I agree with you, the COVID vax (as it's own entity), is not political. It's a vax that was made by professionals! I wish there was long term data on it. That data won't exist for a while. My beliefs are firm on the vaccines. I only said "politics" once in my original post, you can change that to "administrative". Registered independant here, yes we still exist.

AB19.5: If am am poor, old, and realize I made a huge mistake, I will know I still stuck to my guns. Yes being wrong is a possibility! Good luck to you as well. I mean it when I said it, the people we work traffic with are overall awesome. I hope your career goes as you want. I'd lie if I said I won't miss it, it's all I know.

(I could be wrong, maybe we have an ex-medical pro/med sceintist ATC'r in our midst) None of us on the forum are experts on the COVID vax or COVID. We are controllers! We are all parroting crap we heard on the news and on (the most perfect source of information) the INTERNET.

Either side can be wrong, only time will tell. Life has been "interesting" for me, but it's been a hell of a ride. Somewhere along the way I learned humility (the banned word in ATC). I pray that the nation can find out what that is.

What long term data? The vaccine isn’t even in your body for more than a couple weeks? It’s been over a year. What are you waiting for? A decade?

Youre right none of us are experts. So why are you making up concerns that the experts say don’t exist?

 

[ZappBand69]

What long term data? The vaccine isn’t even in your body for more than a couple weeks? It’s been over a year. What are you waiting for? A decade?

Again, my beliefs say no. If I was not adherent to my religion I'd say the following:

I'd like to see a fully (covid) vaxxed male, and a fully (covid) vaxxed female, concieve a child. I'd like that child to grow up and exit puberty and be perfectly healthy.
Multiply this by an X factor of study participants/children to accurately reflect the diverse population. Again, I talk on radios, I don't know how big the test population should be. Whatever the number is as is used by the med field in every other study they use with new meds/vaccines.

In the mean time, we'd see how adults have fared with the COVID vax.

So yeah I guess (if I was not subject to my religious beliefs) I would want more than a decade before I got it. I'm still making my family!

I don't agree with much of what you say, but I will respond to you and not be a richard. Honest and non-inflammatory discourse is what this nation needs as a whole!

Opposing sides can talk to each other and not insult. When we were kids we all learned about the great ol' USA and how we "compromise".
Nowadays it is "the other side can die for all I care".

This mandate could be a breaking point but I pray it's not. You'll agree with this: CRAZY times we live in!

 

[32andBelow]

Again, my beliefs say no. If I was not adherent to my religion I'd say the following:

I'd like to see a fully (covid) vaxxed male, and a fully (covid) vaxxed female, concieve a child. I'd like that child to grow up and exit puberty and be perfectly healthy.
Multiply this by an X factor of study participants/children to accurately reflect the diverse population. Again, I talk on radios, I don't know how big the test population should be. Whatever the number is as is used by the med field in every other study they use with new meds/vaccines.

In the mean time, we'd see how adults have fared with the COVID vax.

So yeah I guess (if I was not subject to my religious beliefs) I would want more than a decade before I got it. I'm still making my family!

I don't agree with much of what you say, but I will respond to you and not be a richard. Honest and non-inflammatory discourse is what this nation needs as a whole!

Opposing sides can talk to each other and not insult. When we were kids we all learned about the great ol' USA and how we "compromise".
Nowadays it is "the other side can die for all I care".

This mandate could be a breaking point but I pray it's not. You'll agree with this: CRAZY times we live in!

This mandate is the majority finally sick of the loud minorities shit. We want the pandemic to end.

 

[ZappBand69]

This mandate is the majority finally sick of the loud minorities shit. We want the pandemic to end.

Yeah the majority has had the COVID vax. I'm not one of the loud ones, or maybe I am since I posted about it. I want the pandemic to end. Sadly I don't think it'll ever end, it'll be endemic.

I'm glad the COVID vax has kept some people from getting it, and maybe kept some people from bad side effects. The latter is debatable, because you'll never know how person X would have responded to COVID, vax or not, unless you could clone person X(kept them un-covid vaxxed) AND had a time machine.

I had it, and as data suggested, I recovered. It sucked, but I am back to 100%. I wished the whole time I was one of the guys that only lost taste/smell and could've got crap done during my long absence! But I was sick!

My experience with it showed one thing.: (At least in my area) Docs still don't know crap about. How long am I naturally immune? No one knows. How long is the covid vax good for? No one knows. What should I do since I have covid? "Well just try to get better, drink fluids, if you feel really bad go to the ER". What??? (I did not ever need further medical attention FYI).

What a PITA. I wish it was still 2019. 2015 was ok too. We can't pick the times we live in.

Only time will tell what the solution is. Until then, unless we have a resident expert, no one here has any first-hand facts!

What long term data? The vaccine isn’t even in your body for more than a couple weeks? It’s been over a year. What are you waiting for? A decade?

Youre right none of us are experts. So why are you making up concerns that the experts say don’t exist?

I missed the reply to the second line.

My concerns: again my religious beliefs says otherwise, but lets again cast that aside for the sake of .65 discussion...

The decade + thing and kid thing I said is just what I want to see. We are dealing with new tech, at least massively implemented new tech, with (most) of the vaccines. An adult getting the shot is one thing, but a developing child is another. So much growth, so many defects. Many of us have genetic defects we never know about. I have one that has affected me severely (no it's not my brain lol) but I survived and I keep my medical. Not a pity story, so moving on: The effect on mRNA on the growing child is unknown, at least not known in a properly sized/tracked study. We will all witness that together.

I know the people that created the stuff are not evil nor had evil intentions. They did as good a job as possible. History says only time will tell with meds/vaxxes.

Heck, Billy Joel sang about it; if you are not familiar, please read about the children of Thalidomide. Not a vax, but it was "safe", but when the babies came out... I'll stop there, it's really sad. Any way, per the internet it is still in use, and now the risks are known, it just took time. I'm not an expert on this drug, if you read more into it and see someting I missed so be it.

The vax has been around to the general public since what, MAR/APR 2021? I can't say for sure. 9 months for typical pregnancy, everyone knows that. Short of a few premature babies, the stats I want are years away. I don't feel I'm making my concerns up, from a historical perspective.

That is besides the 8 people (some family) I know, first hand, that have had problems since getting the shot. One died. Yes it could absolutely be a coincidence, so lets just cancel this bit.

Most of my family "screams" at me to "just get the shot, think about your family, keep your job". It's crazy, maybe I'm nuts, but it just feels wrong. The mandate feels wrong in my gut. I trust my gut. I have made my choice due to my sincerely held beliefs.