Simulator Grading

bob smith

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132
Anybody see the new grading in the 3210 for simulator problems? They are grading like the academy and you can earn “plus points” for demonstrating exceptional ability in “equipment usage” during the problem as well as other categories. Seems like they want every breathing body to make it to the floor now at a minimum.
 
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tunwno

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299
Anybody see the new grading in the 3210 for simulator problems? They are grading like the academy and you can earn “plus points” for demonstrating exceptional ability in “equipment usage” during the problem as well as other categories. Seems like they want every breathing body to make it to the floor now at a minimum.
?
 

SCofATC

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FAA
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37
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N90 New York Tracon
I am guessing Bob means 3120.4. And I can only find version P online. Where can we find this new verbage? If it makes it easier to get through classroom and simulation to get to the more hands-on training and pass/fail there I would think that is a good thing.
 

32andBelow

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Anybody see the new grading in the 3210 for simulator problems? They are grading like the academy and you can earn “plus points” for demonstrating exceptional ability in “equipment usage” during the problem as well as other categories. Seems like they want every breathing body to make it to the floor now at a minimum.
Which is good cus the lab is nothing at all like real life.
 

mrobs15

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Idk where to find it but I did get a CEDAR item saying all simulator and written tests must now use 70% as the passing number.
 
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Yeah we got this too. All sim evals, written tests, map tests etc. now can't have a passing score higher than 70%. Now you can have a sep error in a sim eval and would still need to lose 15 more points before it would be a fail. Should result in a lot more people making it to the floor at N90 instead of washing out whole classes in the sims.
 

Stinger

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1,134
If the problems are graded the exact same, and all the little points are added up and deducted, it will result in more people actually failing in the simulators. I'd be surprised if many facilities have come up with ways to add positive points back in.
16 points for a separation loss, but possible for 5 points (or 4?) to be added back in the separation category. I can only see that happening if there's problems designed to have a separation loss, but the trainee saw the conflict and fixed it.
Only way I can see this working (and the memo should have included it) is to describe how to add positive points. TETRA uses a set number of "goals" that can be accomplished in the problem. The goals include things like: aircraft crossing the threshold, leaving the lateral confines of the airspace, getting airbone as a satellite departure, etc. Each goal is worth something like 2.5 or 3.3 points.

Nationwide, facilities are going to have to rework their problems to get an effective scoring system in place. Or, have someone work the problem in an efficient way and determine what the positive points are going to be. The negative points are easy enough to figure out, but those are going to add up quick...especially on the 100-125% problems.
 

bob smith

Trusted Contributor
Messages
132
If the problems are graded the exact same, and all the little points are added up and deducted, it will result in more people actually failing in the simulators. I'd be surprised if many facilities have come up with ways to add positive points back in.
16 points for a separation loss, but possible for 5 points (or 4?) to be added back in the separation category. I can only see that happening if there's problems designed to have a separation loss, but the trainee saw the conflict and fixed it.
Only way I can see this working (and the memo should have included it) is to describe how to add positive points. TETRA uses a set number of "goals" that can be accomplished in the problem. The goals include things like: aircraft crossing the threshold, leaving the lateral confines of the airspace, getting airbone as a satellite departure, etc. Each goal is worth something like 2.5 or 3.3 points.

Nationwide, facilities are going to have to rework their problems to get an effective scoring system in place. Or, have someone work the problem in an efficient way and determine what the positive points are going to be. The negative points are easy enough to figure out, but those are going to add up quick...especially on the 100-125% problems.
I think it will depend on the facility, which will add a ton of subjectivity to the process. One facility might not care about nitpicking your pointout phraseology while another might knock you off on communication for clicking the pickle twice.
 

Stinger

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1,134
I think it will depend on the facility, which will add a ton of subjectivity to the process. One facility might not care about nitpicking your pointout phraseology while another might knock you off on communication for clicking the pickle twice.
TETRA runs with a cap on the amount of phraseology points that can be deducted...it's somewhere between 5 and 10. There was also caps on the recent memo that went out to facilities, but I didn't memorize them and don't have the memo in front of me.
And yes, I know someone that was deducted phraseology points for ending transmissions with "thanks" "bye" "see ya" etc...
 

DankVectorz

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FAA
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705
Facility
N90 New York Tracon
I’m ok with being allowed to have a sep error in the lab. We’ve lost too many trainees that showed potential and did really good the whole lab and had just a couple mistakes in the eval. You’re a trainee, mistakes should be expected. The lab should be to demonstrate that you can learn the material etc.
 
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