Shoot The Breeze

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edds93 said:
Was thinking about this the other day.... here me out. Implement a national sales tax.... say 15% across the board that applies to anyone buying anything. Houses, cars, consumer goods, electric bill. Only a few exceptions, say food, water, medicine. We implement a $150 monthly ubi for every adult, $75 for kids meant to offset taxes on the first 1k of monthly expenses like we have the standard deduction now. No more filing taxes, no more state income taxes (they can adjust their local sales taxes to compensate.) Everyone is treated the same. Now to implement it, I think we turn into a cashless society. I'm hesitant to give the government that much power, but we're headed there anyway whether I like it or not. Going cashless with the usd on the block chain, there's no more tax evasion or cheating. Everyone is equal. Waitresses and strippers can't report only half of their tips. Scummy landlords write off a bunch of bs. Average Joe's can't say they donated 10% of their income to the church unchecked. It's nearly as fair as you can get and it encourages saving, investment, and producing income while discouraging wasteful spending. There might be some kinks to work out and the rates might gave to be adjusted a little, but I think it's a far superior system. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. Feel free to float this by your high ranking gov't official if you have connections like that.
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This would just lead to even lower rates of home ownership. People can barely scrape together 20% for a down payment plus closing costs. Another 15% on top of that would crush any dreams they had of owning. Not to mention that still wouldn’t include yearly property tax.
Let’s use 500k for ease,

20% down - 100k
15% sales tax - 75k tax bill
5% in closing costs - 25k

so you’d need at least 200k in savings to buy a house? No thanks
 
32andBelow said:
I’m gonna need a sauce on that. What’s the current average tax rate?
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Sauce is a republican from 2016 race. Others have tried it as well.
Current average tax rate doesn’t matter. Make it 10%. End all this BS of deductions. Make everyone pay their fair share
 
Spaceforce said:
Sauce is a republican from 2016 race. Others have tried it as well.
Current average tax rate doesn’t matter. Make it 10%. End all this BS of deductions. Make everyone pay their fair share
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Hate to say I agree with 32 here but I don't think 10% of income would cover it and once again, you'd still have the problem of those who get paid in cash not reporting their income. I know of so many contractors, hair dressers, waitresses, drug dealers, etc that never report. National sales tax makes it so you can't hide from the tax. You pay taxes when you want to spend the money you've earned and if you're not going to spend it, that's your prerogative. I'd guestimate that less than 0.5% of people would go out and live off the land to avoid taxes and if they do, great. That means that they're using their own resources and underconsuming products and services in the economy, freeing up supply for others who demand them. We want to discourage over consumption and waste of resources. My system would tax guys like Jeff Bezos when they buy their lambo, their yacht, and their mansion. Those guys usually have income structured in a way that they aren't paying very much income tax anyways. The rich are smart and the tax code is rigged. No one wants to pay 40-50% of their income to the government, let alone whatever the rate is going to be soon when the Dems get their way.
CaptainObvious said:
This would just lead to even lower rates of home ownership. People can barely scrape together 20% for a down payment plus closing costs. Another 15% on top of that would crush any dreams they had of owning. Not to mention that still wouldn’t include yearly property tax.
Let’s use 500k for ease,

20% down - 100k
15% sales tax - 75k tax bill
5% in closing costs - 25k

so you’d need at least 200k in savings to buy a house? No thanks
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What's wrong with that? Housing prices would adjust, but so would the prices of everything else. When you start calculating in all the extra take home pay people would have from no longer paying income and payroll taxes, it would more than offset the extra tax bill. The tax bill would be paid by the loan so it could be financed over the length of the mortgage. I guess that could cause some issues in terms of collateral for the loan so maybe the tax bill would be financed separately over 30 years. That way, should you default, the bank could foreclose and sell it to someone new who would take over the new tax payments based on sale price. But it would also allow people to qualify for a mortgage the same as they do now. If you want to tax the Bill Gates' of the world, this is how you do it. If they don't live in excess and buy a private jet, then who cares. Whoever eventually inherits the money will spend it, and the taxes will be paid on it then.
 
Believe it or not the progressive tax scheme makes a lot of sense. What can debate what the levels at each income bracket should be but it is fair
 
32andBelow said:
Believe it or not the progressive tax scheme makes a lot of sense. What can debate what the levels at each income bracket should be but it is fair
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Fair for who? I bet if the top rate was applied to anyone making over100k and you end up becoming a CPC someday, you probably wouldn't think it's too fair.
 
edds93 said:
Hate to say I agree with 32 here but I don't think 10% of income would cover it and once again, you'd still have the problem of those who get paid in cash not reporting their income. I know of so many contractors, hair dressers, waitresses, drug dealers, etc that never report. National sales tax makes it so you can't hide from the tax. You pay taxes when you want to spend the money you've earned and if you're not going to spend it, that's your prerogative. I'd guestimate that less than 0.5% of people would go out and live off the land to avoid taxes and if they do, great. That means that they're using their own resources and underconsuming products and services in the economy, freeing up supply for others who demand them. We want to discourage over consumption and waste of resources. My system would tax guys like Jeff Bezos when they buy their lambo, their yacht, and their mansion. Those guys usually have income structured in a way that they aren't paying very much income tax anyways. The rich are smart and the tax code is rigged. No one wants to pay 40-50% of their income to the government, let alone whatever the rate is going to be soon when the Dems get their way.

What's wrong with that? Housing prices would adjust, but so would the prices of everything else. When you start calculating in all the extra take home pay people would have from no longer paying income and payroll taxes, it would more than offset the extra tax bill. The tax bill would be paid by the loan so it could be financed over the length of the mortgage. I guess that could cause some issues in terms of collateral for the loan so maybe the tax bill would be financed separately over 30 years. That way, should you default, the bank could foreclose and sell it to someone new who would take over the new tax payments based on sale price. But it would also allow people to qualify for a mortgage the same as they do now. If you want to tax the Bill Gates' of the world, this is how you do it. If they don't live in excess and buy a private jet, then who cares. Whoever eventually inherits the money will spend it, and the taxes will be paid on it then.
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So in 2019, corporations paid 230 billion total in taxes. By taxing everyone 10% I’d say revenue on that alone would double at least.
https://graphics.reuters.com/USA-TRUMP/TAXES/xlbpgjzwrvq/chart.png1615951816088.png
Now look at this and figure out how much 10% is of just the top 20
List of largest companies in the United States by revenue

10% on everyone, every thing. And people who don’t report tips, wages, income, get wrecked by the IRS that can be funded because of all the extra tax income that wasn’t there before.

now If this ever were to happen, shit would hit the fan, companies would leave left and right out of the US. They would all find some loopholes.
 
Since this is the off topic thread-dont punish people. Drop the stupidity-we don't need more pakistani gender studies funding when we could have cheaper education.

The government is already socialist.
They already back your mortgage!
They already back student loans!

Either make people accountable (banks and colleges responsible for loans they give) or regulate the cost of education and kick the foreign investment bout of real estate. (China is buying about 20%)

The conservatives argue socialism and blah blah but it's already here-where are the candidates arguing to get your money worth?

Oh and healthcare? You already pay for the uninsured through taxes (grants that go to hospitals to treat uninsured) and increased cost of care and that increases your private insurance premiums.

Are elementary schools socialist? Fire departments? Water? Yes, yes, yes

We are already a socialist republic-do you pledge allegiance to the democratic flag or to the republic, for which it stands?
 
edds93 said:
Hate to say I agree with 32 here but I don't think 10% of income would cover it and once again, you'd still have the problem of those who get paid in cash not reporting their income. I know of so many contractors, hair dressers, waitresses, drug dealers, etc that never report. National sales tax makes it so you can't hide from the tax. You pay taxes when you want to spend the money you've earned and if you're not going to spend it, that's your prerogative. I'd guestimate that less than 0.5% of people would go out and live off the land to avoid taxes and if they do, great. That means that they're using their own resources and underconsuming products and services in the economy, freeing up supply for others who demand them. We want to discourage over consumption and waste of resources. My system would tax guys like Jeff Bezos when they buy their lambo, their yacht, and their mansion. Those guys usually have income structured in a way that they aren't paying very much income tax anyways. The rich are smart and the tax code is rigged. No one wants to pay 40-50% of their income to the government, let alone whatever the rate is going to be soon when the Dems get their way.

What's wrong with that? Housing prices would adjust, but so would the prices of everything else. When you start calculating in all the extra take home pay people would have from no longer paying income and payroll taxes, it would more than offset the extra tax bill. The tax bill would be paid by the loan so it could be financed over the length of the mortgage. I guess that could cause some issues in terms of collateral for the loan so maybe the tax bill would be financed separately over 30 years. That way, should you default, the bank could foreclose and sell it to someone new who would take over the new tax payments based on sale price. But it would also allow people to qualify for a mortgage the same as they do now. If you want to tax the Bill Gates' of the world, this is how you do it. If they don't live in excess and buy a private jet, then who cares. Whoever eventually inherits the money will spend it, and the taxes will be paid on it then.
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Would they adjust? They sure haven’t adjusted to stagnant wages in this country, and take an increasingly higher percentage of your income to buy
 
CaptainObvious said:
Would they adjust? They sure haven’t adjusted to stagnant wages in this country, and take an increasingly higher percentage of your income to buy
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They'd absolutely adjust. Real estate is just like any other market. There's supply and demand which ultimately dictates price. What you're complaining about is a separate issue where the market has been distorted my the Fed's easy monetary policy and government tax incentives to buy real estate. Easy money policies have resulted in artificially low interest rates which allow housing prices to rise nominally while because the payment stays the same. Same with the price of new cars. It's the same reason we have a bubble in stocks while we have record margin debt and extreme leverage in the system. So yes, the prices would be adjusted as buyers only look at what housing payments they can afford so supply and demand would stabilize, though the market will still be distorted from true the value based on the easy money policies mentioned.
 
edds93 said:
Fair for who? I bet if the top rate was applied to anyone making over100k and you end up becoming a CPC someday, you probably wouldn't think it's too fair.
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Well that’s why the top level is higher. For people ther are richer. As I said you can debate where the levels should be. I don’t think anyone counts 100k as rich.
 
32andBelow said:
Well that’s why the top level is higher. For people ther are richer. As I said you can debate where the levels should be. I don’t think anyone counts 100k as rich.
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Tell that to 50% of Americans. They would take 100k/yr and be “rich”
 
Mike Kilo said:
I thought if I ever made 50k I would have made it to the big leagues lol. Six figures is rich.
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I thought making 48k a year was rich. Boy when I started making 100k, I told myself, this ain’t enough. Yeah 100k is comfortable, but 200k would be living large.
 
32andBelow said:
No one is talking about raising taxes on people making 100k. And no matter how much you make your first 100k is taxed the same
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The current tax plan or the 10% plan? The current is actually taxed differently 3 times. 10%, 12%, 22%. Single/Married brackets. But guess what, deductions come in and bring down taxable income. What do you mean by taxes the same?
 
Spaceforce said:
The current tax plan or the 10% plan? The current is actually taxed differently 3 times. 10%, 12%, 22%. Single/Married brackets. But guess what, deductions come in and bring down taxable income. What do you mean by taxes the same?
Click to expand...
I think he means that when you move into another tax bracket, only the income in excess of the lower bracket is taxed at the higher rate.
 
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