In the interest of National Security

[DOD4Life]

Nearly anyone can be a pilot, doctor, realtor, lawyer ect.. it's not about who has the potential, it's about who spent the time and effort to actually be. We get paid more than a McDonald's worker because it takes multiple years of training, jumping through hoops, and putting in time/effort to do our job. We get paid becuase what we do has real value in the world. We get paid becuase we hold a large amount of responsibility when we plug in, messing up can mean anywhere from wasting a few hundred bucks in gas to hundreds of people's lives.

I also actually disagree that anyone could do this job, well maybe a better way to put that is we shouldn't let just anyone do this job. We do need a high standards, people fail for a reason in most cases.

What I think gets people confused about is this job really doesn't need prerequisites, you don't need someone to have a college degree or previous work experience. You can apply with a high-school degree, but that doesn't mean just anyone can do the job. You have to apply, make it through academy, and then spend years training at each seperate facility you go to. Many fail during those steps, and rightfully so. That time/effort is what makes us Profesional controllers and is why we are paid well enough. We are replaceable... but it takes many years and many applicants to do so.


Edit: thankfully for most of us spelling and grammar are not super useful to a controller.

Gonna have to disagree on the “nearly anyone” when it comes to doctors & lawyers. Medical schools & law schools are competitive. Students must have excellent undergrad transcripts & do well on the entrance exams (MCAT & LSAT). There are lots of college students who start out with pre-med & pre-law majors who then have to switch majors when they don’t get high grades in certain courses. For example, Organic Chemistry is considered the “make-or-break” course for pre-med students. If you barely pass that course with a “C,” then your transcript won’t look all that competitive to a medical school in comparison to the other applicants.

 

[Raise when?]

Yeah isn’t it funny how those at high level facilities and/or where they want to be have ZERO gripes about NATCAs bullshit? Wild coincidence.

Eh, I’m where I wanna be at a 12 and I’ve been bitching. lol.

 

[Shikaka]

Gonna have to disagree on the “nearly anyone” when it comes to doctors & lawyers. Medical schools & law schools are competitive. Students must have excellent undergrad transcripts & do well on the entrance exams (MCAT & LSAT). There are lots of college students who start out with pre-med & pre-law majors who then have to switch majors when they don’t get high grades in certain courses. For example, Organic Chemistry is considered the “make-or-break” course for pre-med students. If you barely pass that course with a “C,” then your transcript won’t look all that competitive to a medical school in comparison to the other applicants.

I think you missed his point, with application anyone can be a doctor. You said it yourself, study hard enough.

We can all agree that it takes a specific point on the autism spectrum to be a controller. We aren't as hard studied, it still takes half a decade or more for a high level TRACON controller from academy to facility, but there is an innate processing we all have to do this job.

But the end point is, we have a flick that is worth more than we are paid, and we aren't easily replaced (hence staffing since forever)

 

[Hal9000]

I think you missed his point, with application anyone can be a doctor. You said it yourself, study hard enough.

We can all agree that it takes a specific point on the autism spectrum to be a controller. We aren't as hard studied, it still takes half a decade or more for a high level TRACON controller from academy to facility, but there is an innate processing we all have to do this job.

But the end point is, we have a flick that is worth more than we are paid, and we aren't easily replaced (hence staffing since forever)

I once had a cop tell me, "Oh, you're a controller. Met a number of you. Half of you are autists and the other half are assholes."

He never told me which one I was.

 

[DOD4Life]

I think you missed his point, with application anyone can be a doctor. You said it yourself, study hard enough.

We can all agree that it takes a specific point on the autism spectrum to be a controller. We aren't as hard studied, it still takes half a decade or more for a high level TRACON controller from academy to facility, but there is an innate processing we all have to do this job.

But the end point is, we have a flick that is worth more than we are paid, and we aren't easily replaced (hence staffing since forever)

I don’t think I missed his point. I’m saying that even those who try hard & study will still not perform as well (in their undergrad courses & on the entrance exams) as their competitors & will not get accepted to the professional schools to which they apply.

That being said, I do agree on the overall point that one can either do ATC or not based mostly on aptitude rather than how diligently he or she studies the book material.

 

[KP-ATC]

I once had a cop tell me, "Oh, you're a controller. Met a number of you. Half of you are autists and the other half are assholes."

He never told me which one I was.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

Yeah isn’t it funny how those at high level facilities and/or where they want to be have ZERO gripes about NATCAs bullshit? Wild coincidence.

I’m at a 12 and I would not agree with that sentiment. I think the divide has more to do with whether or not people owned a home before or after COVID. The difference between a ~3% and a ~7% mortgage is immense

 

[Whiskey Charlie]

I’m at a 12 and I would not agree with that sentiment. I think the divide has more to do with whether or not people owned a home before or after COVID. The difference between a ~3% and a ~7% mortgage is immense

That’s on top of ridiculous housing inflation. Both of them makes it unaffordable.

I’m where I want to be, but looking to go somewhere else because I can’t afford a home in my market.

 

[Shikaka]

I don’t think I missed his point. I’m saying that even those who try hard & study will still not perform as well (in their undergrad courses & on the entrance exams) as their competitors & will not get accepted to the professional schools to which they apply.

That being said, I do agree on the overall point that one can either do ATC or not based mostly on aptitude rather than how diligently he or she studies the book material.

My flight surgeons a foot doctor, just because they're not an ER surgeon doesn't mean they're not getting the most out of the C they got in bio-chem.

Just because they're competitive doesn't mean no one gets in. The lowest level doctor just winds up does prostate exams and looking at bunions while still making bank.

It's not a can/cannot career like ours, more of a means and willpower career.

 

[+TSRA]

I once had a cop tell me, "Oh, you're a controller. Met a number of you. Half of you are autists and the other half are assholes."

He never told me which one I was.

I have to agree with this comparison to ATC more than the Dr. & lawyer comment. Think about your co-workers. Would you want them as your or your family’s Dr.? Would you hire them to legally protect you?

I see way too many lazy, weak, traffic avoiding Controllers. And people in this this field aren’t rewarded or promoted for doing good. It’s all about sucking managers & the union off.

 

[RH316]

My flight surgeons a foot doctor, just because they're not an ER surgeon doesn't mean they're not getting the most out of the C they got in bio-chem.

Just because they're competitive doesn't mean no one gets in. The lowest level doctor just winds up does prostate exams and looking at bunions while still making bank.

It's not a can/cannot career like ours, more of a means and willpower career.

What’d you call a doctor who graduated med school with a C average… A Doctor 🥴

Similar to a controller who goes to a TRB and checks out.. he’s a controller 😅

 

[Move78]

Why do you think someone would feel motivated to propose that amendment?

Cuz it’s ridiculous that we don’t vote to ratify. I strongly support the 2nd extension and strongly support a vote to ratify.

 

[Move78]

Yeah isn’t it funny how those at high level facilities and/or where they want to be have ZERO gripes about NATCAs bullshit? Wild coincidence.

Guy that’s never been at a high level facility and/or where he wants pretends to know more shit he doesn’t know. Spend a week at a center there’s hundreds of controllers the level of complaining is awe inspiring.

 

[+TSRA]

Guy that’s never been at a high level facility and/or where he wants pretends to know more shit he doesn’t know. Spend a week at a center there’s hundreds of controllers the level of complaining is awe inspiring.

A true question…what are their complaints/remarks/observations. What do they want changed? Is it solely pay issues?

 

[Raise when?]

What I truly don't understand is that so many I've met in the FAA are massive pro sports fans....watching games, playing fantasy leagues, wearing jerseys... And their favorite athletes are always trying to negotiate the best contracts for themselves; except in the case where they've had a long career and are ring chasing. So you support your heroes negotiating for better pay and working conditions but not yourself?

Just because you earn a decent living at a 12 doesn't mean you stop negotiating. I truly don't understand why people are like this? Why would you settle for less? It's not bad to seek payment for what you are worth. It's like a weird form of bootlicking to devalue yourself and the career.

It's like the longshoreman strike. Didn't their leader mention how they kept the economy going during COVID? Yeah...you know, so did we. Amazon, UPS..made record profits. People were ordering shit online constantly. And then after the pandemic was declared "over" in 2022, WHO was it that supported travel for people who were cooped up for two years? When the airlines profits were soaring in 2022, 23, 24, etc.....and inflation raged at 8-10% every year while we got a shitty 5% and 1.6% raises along the way.

And I love how everyone forgets how hazard pay is literally in our contract. And NATCA said we won't defend you against the government mandating the vaccine...which i'm ok with personally, but where the fuck is our missing hazard pay?

NATCA still is too little, too late in mentioning pay. And that's why it is a dying union and hemorrhaging members.. and why I call my ARTCC the giant L factory.

Cause we literally haven't had a W since the red book. Lol. Things just keep getting worse for this career because BUE's have no interest in putting up a fight. Just rolling over like a bunch of weak losers.

 

[NotKC]

What I truly don't understand is that so many I've met in the FAA are massive pro sports fans....watching games, playing fantasy leagues, wearing jerseys... And their favorite athletes are always trying to negotiate the best contracts for themselves; except in the case where they've had a long career and are ring chasing. So you support your heroes negotiating for better pay and working conditions but not yourself?

Just because you earn a decent living at a 12 doesn't mean you stop negotiating. I truly don't understand why people are like this? Why would you settle for less? It's not bad to seek payment for what you are worth. It's like a weird form of bootlicking to devalue yourself and the career.

It's like the longshoreman strike. Didn't their leader mention how they kept the economy going during COVID? Yeah...you know, so did we. Amazon, UPS..made record profits. People were ordering shit online constantly. And then after the pandemic was declared "over" in 2022, WHO was it that supported travel for people who were cooped up for two years? When the airlines profits were soaring in 2022, 23, 24, etc.....and inflation raged at 8-10% every year while we got a shitty 5% and 1.6% raises along the way.

And I love how everyone forgets how hazard pay is literally in our contract. And NATCA said we won't defend you against the government mandating the vaccine...which i'm ok with personally, but where the fuck is our missing hazard pay?

NATCA still is too little, too late in mentioning pay. And that's why it is a dying union and hemorrhaging members.. and why I call my ARTCC the giant L factory.

Cause we literally haven't had a W since the red book. Lol. Things just keep getting worse for this career because BUE's have no interest in putting up a fight. Just rolling over like a bunch of weak losers.

Their slogan was
Record profits = record contracts.

Ours should be:
Record traffic = record contracts.

 

[Raise when?]

Their slogan was
Record profits = record contracts.

Ours should be:
Record traffic = record contracts.

Great idea but our fat dip shit alcoholic traitor union prez would never be on board. He’s busy fucking around on NATCA’s dime and enjoying the 400k salary

 

[ChuckNovember]

You can just see him gloating and smiling while writing “you will NEVER get that large pay raise”, even though he’s rooting against himself and his own best interests 😂

Bootlicking martyrs ftw?

Incredible and sad that this mindset has become so pervasive in the union that got us reclassified onto our own unique pay scale.

Can you imagine if those guys had thought like this back in the day? We are all the benefactors of past controllers thinking they deserved a massive pay raise and achieving it, and now we have a bunch of dipshits collecting Vegas merit badges and official time shouting down at anyone who says that we deserved the pay back then and we deserve that equivalent pay now.

 

[ChuckNovember]

The majority of NATCA employees didn't vote for the union president yet a large majority is on here whining about Nick.

I'm fine with the extension. It was the right call. I think most of you are disconnected from reality of what type of pay other jobs get and lack of pay raises. I think most of you have been subsidized by the government through your entire lives with the military, DoD, or FAA and have no concept real life.

But yeah, we should have negotiated with the dude that is cancelling the TSA CBA, other CBAs already signed, and now possibly ours. He would definitely helped us. You're the type of person that thinks Reagan was a good dude. Probably sucked Bushes dick during the white book.

You want a real outside perspective that you can't fathom? Because this career field likes to jack itself off about our thick skin and all that bullshit? Nearly anyone can do this job. The only reason they can't get the 10's of thousands that apply to fill the ranks is due to the school house. You can all circle jerk about washout rates but any level 4 or 5 with a 50-60% success rate is due to the controllers being trash teachers and not because the candidates are bad.

Oh and you will never get that large pay raise. You guys can keep begging but youll never get it. NATCA can disappear a new union can form and it will be the same or worse. Maybe we will privatize and some of you can get the wake up call you deserve.

There was a minute there around the five-year CPC mark where I probably would’ve agreed with you that anyone could do this job. It’s an inclination that I think a lot of us go through as the memories of training fade and we start to really develop a mastery of what we’re doing. But then, you start training. And if you’re a good trainer, you start training the difficult ones. And if you ever get to that point and you yourself transfer to one of the busier facilities in the NAS, you’ll really how idiotic it is to insist that anyone can do this job.

Until then, 🤫

Sincerely,
Someone who thinks some of the article 114s are doing a great job and didn’t vote for Trump. (Before you try and pigeonhole me)

 

[Raise when?]

Incredible and sad that this mindset has become so pervasive in the union that got us reclassified onto our own unique pay scale.

Can you imagine if those guys had thought like this back in the day? We are all the benefactors of past controllers thinking they deserved a massive pay raise and achieving it, and now we have a bunch of dipshits collecting Vegas merit badges and official time shouting down at anyone who says that we deserved the pay back then and we deserve that equivalent pay now.

yeah, it's horrible; such smug loser mindset