Training hold

[CF]

No. This is what I was annoyed with the other day. People keep saying bring people back...now they are. Yet the FS is having people quarantine for 2 weeks regardless of symptoms or negative test. You’re not required to take a test and honestly it’s getting harder and harder to get tested and get results back within 5 days of finding out anyway. That probably depends on the area though. Don’t get me wrong I understand the concern, but we can’t keep sending a third of a facility home because someone Tests positive and may have been close to them. I don’t know I guess there’s no good solution.

It seems silly but it would be negligent not to given the best available information. If they didn’t quarantine people then you risk losing the entire facility and even a small risk of that is worth taking the hit.

 

[SCofATC]

Russia submitted their vax to WHO yesterday. I'll take me some of Putin's Ghost Pepper Radium Sauce.

 

[BigEggplant]

And why would a federal agency fire employees?

Because they don’t have a need for them.

I worked with a guy who got a 30 day notice of termination with a printout from usajobs of other federal jobs within the commuting area.

This is someone with 7 years in, at a level 12 facility, who lost his medical permanently.

the atm of an adjacent facility hired him, but there’s no guarantee, and this happened like 4 years ago, under a dem administration.

there are civil service protections, but nobody should think that the government will not fire someone.

 

[32andBelow]

The criteria they used on me was 30 minute contact within 6 feet. How are whole areas getting sent home?

 

[Here4thedrama]

It seems silly but it would be negligent not to given the best available information. If they didn’t quarantine people then you risk losing the entire facility and even a small risk of that is worth taking the hit.

Yea I get that..but it’s just a honesty policy anyway. Did you come in contact with them...yes because I know I’ll get 2 weeks off. You can just lie about anything and some managers will just give you the time off. Someone traveled out of state to visit family (in their own free time) and came back and said they were directly exposed and are off for 2 weeks on admin. We aren’t keeping anybody liable for their own actions.

The criteria they used on me was 30 minute contact within 6 feet. How are whole areas getting sent home?

Same. Crew you worked with. Crew you relieved. Crew that relieved you. Breaks?Adds more people to the mix. It seems unlikely they all could’ve met that criteria, but they send it to potential people and whom ever says they were I guess gets off? I haven’t actually seen the tracing form that’s filled out.

 

[32andBelow]

Same. Crew you worked with. Crew you relieved. Crew that relieved you. Breaks?Adds more people to the mix. It seems unlikely they all could’ve met that criteria, but they send it to potential people and whom ever says they were I guess gets off? I haven’t actually seen the tracing form that’s filled out.

You can pretty much only meet it if you d side some someone for over 30 mins

 

[Here4thedrama]

You can pretty much only meet it if you d side some someone for over 30 mins

Not in a center. In a tower. Suppose to be able to stay 6ft apart, but you can easily say you weren’t and honestly we aren’t most the time. Someone earlier said they lost like a dozen? That would hurt a tower or up/down pretty bad. Tower only it only takes 4-6 people to be out and that’s just one crew. Just working in the tower one day with one person can take out 5-10 people on quarantine.

 

[Billybob]

Someone keeps utilizing the academy currently running as an example for why the FAA wouldn't consider a RIF, as if that even makes sense.

The overwhelming majority of people at the academy and recently passing through and/or getting ready to go can be fired for no reason whatsoever.

I'm fairly sure the gov is cool with shit canning what they perceive to be excess personnel within their probationary period.

Considering and doing are two completely different things. People in this thread are taking "talks" and "considerations" at more than face value and acting like it's imminent. If the FAA were to begin a RIF then it would start at the bottom, which would be academy folk. The fact that they are still in the academy, classes are still being scheduled, bids are still opening, and the employment process is still moving forward tells me a far different story than "the gov is cool with shitcanning what they perceive to be excess personnel within their probationary period". I'm willing to wager that if it were becoming a realistic possibility A LOT more information would be coming out on social media and other sources than a NATCA telecon.

 

[Mr.Tickles]

No. This is what I was annoyed with the other day. People keep saying bring people back...now they are. Yet the FS is having people quarantine for 2 weeks regardless of symptoms or negative test. You’re not required to take a test and honestly it’s getting harder and harder to get tested and get results back within 5 days of finding out anyway. That probably depends on the area though. Don’t get me wrong I understand the concern, but we can’t keep sending a third of a facility home because someone Tests positive and may have been close to them. I don’t know I guess there’s no good solution.

Interesting. i’d have thought they want negative tests to prevent asymptotic people from spreading it. Yeah I’m not sure what the answer is and it doesnt seem like anyone else does.

 

[Shikaka]

Considering and doing are two completely different things. People in this thread are taking "talks" and "considerations" at more than face value and acting like it's imminent. If the FAA were to begin a RIF then it would start at the bottom, which would be academy folk. The fact that they are still in the academy, classes are still being scheduled, bids are still opening, and the employment process is still moving forward tells me a far different story than "the gov is cool with shitcanning what they perceive to be excess personnel within their probationary period". I'm willing to wager that if it were becoming a realistic possibility A LOT more information would be coming out on social media and other sources than a NATCA telecon.

You have a far higher bar for the government than you should. There would be little to no information when it happens, cuts at the academy would be immediate and a halt to hiring, letters would go out to those on EA.

But that's cool you think the government would be willing to keep you informed...

 

[32andBelow]

You have a far higher bar for the government than you should. There would be little to no information when it happens, cuts at the academy would be immediate and a halt to hiring, letters would go out to those on EA.

But that's cool you think the government would be willing to keep you informed...

There would be an injection in 4 minutes reference the contract

 

[Billybob]

You have a far higher bar for the government than you should. There would be little to no information when it happens, cuts at the academy would be immediate and a halt to hiring, letters would go out to those on EA.

But that's cool you think the government would be willing to keep you informed...

I think our contract says they have to, unless I'm not reading it correctly?

ARTICLE 47
REDUCTION-IN-FORCE (RIF)​

​

Section 1. The Agency agrees to avoid or minimize a RIF by taking such actions as restricting recruitment and promotions, by meeting ceiling limitations through normal attrition, and by reassignment of qualified surplus employees to vacant positions.





Section 2. The Agency agrees to notify the Union when it is determined that a RIF action will be necessary within the unit. The Union will be notified as to the number of positions to be reduced and the vacant positions that management has authorized for staffing. At this time, the Agency and the Union will negotiate the procedures that management will follow in the implementation of the RIF. This notification shall be made at least ninety (90) days before implementation.

 

[Counterclockwise]

There is no RIF period.

 

[Billybob]

There is no RIF period.

RIF period or RIF, period?

 

[Counterclockwise]

RIF period or RIF, period?

RIF comma period period

 

[Billybob]

RIF comma period period

 

[boots]

So they dont require controllers to get tested if they were in close proximity to someone who tested positive? It’s just a 14 day quarantine with no symptoms unless they want to get a test?

Correct, sit at home on free leave and hope you didn't contract the virus and spread it to everyone else that you may have worked with while everyone else is working 10 hour days and 6 day work weeks to cover for you.

 

[Phillyman2633]

View attachment 5558

Bro what the fuck man you come outta left field with this fucking gem

 

[Shikaka]

There would be an injection in 4 minutes reference the contract

I think our contract says they have to, unless I'm not reading it correctly?

ARTICLE 47​

REDUCTION-IN-FORCE (RIF)​

​

Section 1. The Agency agrees to avoid or minimize a RIF by taking such actions as restricting recruitment and promotions, by meeting ceiling limitations through normal attrition, and by reassignment of qualified surplus employees to vacant positions.





Section 2. The Agency agrees to notify the Union when it is determined that a RIF action will be necessary within the unit. The Union will be notified as to the number of positions to be reduced and the vacant positions that management has authorized for staffing. At this time, the Agency and the Union will negotiate the procedures that management will follow in the implementation of the RIF. This notification shall be made at least ninety (90) days before implementation.

People both within probation and at the academy have no help in NATCA. The FAA can fire them without reason.

Ref Section 1, Academy and probationary firings would fulfill that.

Ref Section 2, letters sent right after Academy firings. NATCA has no leg to stand on in regard to a RIF. Even more so now since the system is working with however many thousands sitting at home, despite whatever any of what we say, a pencil sharpener in D.C. sees all those on EA as unnecessary personnel and to accommodate the multi trillion dollar stimulus packages, cuts to the unnecessary would be appealing.

Long story short, anyone within their first year gets fired, no reason necessary and NATCA can't do shit. Plain fact. Following that the FAA sends notice to NATCA it's either conducting RIF in accordance with the CBA or that it intends to breach the CBA and fire earlier.

NATCA can't do jack in all reality if it plays out like that. Not saying it will or that it's even a possibility. Just saying the Fed is both willing and capable, despite a CBA or whatever paper shield protection you guys think you have.

 

[Billybob]

People both within probation and at the academy have no help in NATCA. The FAA can fire them without reason.

Ref Section 1, Academy and probationary firings would fulfill that.

Ref Section 2, letters sent right after Academy firings. NATCA has no leg to stand on in regard to a RIF. Even more so now since the system is working with however many thousands sitting at home, despite whatever any of what we say, a pencil sharpener in D.C. sees all those on EA as unnecessary personnel and to accommodate the multi trillion dollar stimulus packages, cuts to the unnecessary would be appealing.

Long story short, anyone within their first year gets fired, no reason necessary and NATCA can't do shit. Plain fact. Following that the FAA sends notice to NATCA it's either conducting RIF in accordance with the CBA or that it intends to breach the CBA and fire earlier.

NATCA can't do jack in all reality if it plays out like that. Not saying it will or that it's even a possibility. Just saying the Fed is both willing and capable, despite a CBA or whatever paper shield protection you guys think you have.

It is probably true that they can axe people in their probationary period without much concern, I find it very hard to believe that the fed would be willing to breach a contract so brazenly within a two month span (Trump admin). I seriously SERIOUSLY doubt that the fed can just axe thousands of BUE's at-will with absolutely no recourse. That's just not going to happen. If the RIF was really gaining traction you would see hiring freezes, early buyouts, etc. None of it makes any business or economic sense.

The FAA is asking for a little over 17 billion for FY 2021, that's a drop in the bucket, that would be 1.7% of a 1 trillion dollar stimulus package. https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2020-02/FY 2021 FAA President's Budget.pdf
Also there are roughly 14,000 ATC's in the USA, if they all made $150,000/yr that would come out to 2.1 billion dollars (and it will be much less than that). Not to mention the COVID pandemic isn't permanent and we already had a nationwide shortage of ATC's going into this year and we've only lost more through retirements/medicals etc.

So why would the fed start axing people who they invest thousands and thousands of dollars to train, to save a few bucks? The answer is they wouldn't.