1st day Mids

[32andBelow]

Well the fairytale land all the rattler complainers live in where we were all going to get bankers hours was obviously never going to happen. So any fix was going to suck unless you had staffing. I'm interested if NATCA shows any balls with the impasses or if they do the usual lazy bullshit. This isn't some collaborative kumbaya moment. The agency unilaterally implemented rules that will be hard to follow, so the agency should be the ones to eat the cost.

If you just don’t agree to shitty AWS then you won’t get forced into a shitty AWS. You might get forced onto a reverse rattler but I have a feeling participation in that will be quite low in the long term 😬

 

[Mike Kilo]

Well the fairytale land all the rattler complainers live in where we were all going to get bankers hours was obviously never going to happen. So any fix was going to suck unless you had staffing. I'm interested if NATCA shows any balls with the impasses or if they do the usual lazy bullshit. This isn't some collaborative kumbaya moment. The agency unilaterally implemented rules that will be hard to follow, so the agency should be the ones to eat the cost.

While I agree for the most part, we are our own worst enemy. We go in front of congress and complain about fatigue. We make statements to the press about fatigue (mostly staffing). Something like 80% of our ATSAP reports mention fatigue. I still think they should be collaborating with us for once on one of our needs instead of us bending over constantly.

 

[+TSRA]

While I agree for the most part, we are our own worst enemy. We go in front of congress and complain about fatigue. We make statements to the press about fatigue (mostly staffing). Something like 80% of our ATSAP reports mention fatigue. I still think they should be collaborating with us for once on one of our needs instead of us bending over constantly.

I've felt the same way ever since these changes were announced. Problem is, the FAA isn't really fixing the actual problem (maybe even making it worse) but when they tell the media (public) they are giving Controllers longer rest periods, it sounds great and they don't have to add a cent to their bottom line. To add insult to injury, not saying anything to the union was a great strategy on the FAA's part. How would it sound if the union said "No, we aren't going to do this"?

We didn't complain correctly. Something the union should have brought to members' attention but their too busy doing...?

Off topic but if nobody else noticed, the FAA didn't say A WORD to the media/public that they missed the original deadline and postponed these changes to this coming year. That would have been a great time for the union to tell the public about the delay and mention our issues are STAFFING related. Bunch of morons the NEB. At this point the FAA is out smarting and playing us and that says a lot.

 

[Gauff]

I've felt the same way ever since these changes were announced. Problem is, the FAA isn't really fixing the actual problem (maybe even making it worse) but when they tell the media (public) they are giving Controllers longer rest periods, it sounds great and they don't have to add a cent to their bottom line. To add insult to injury, not saying anything to the union was a great strategy on the FAA's part. How would it sound if the union said "No, we aren't going to do this"?

We didn't complain correctly. Something the union should have brought to members' attention but their too busy doing...?

Off topic but if nobody else noticed, the FAA didn't say A WORD to the media/public that they missed the original deadline and postponed these changes to this coming year. That would have been a great time for the union to tell the public about the delay and mention our issues are STAFFING related. Bunch of morons the NEB. At this point the FAA is out smarting and playing us and that says a lot.

But if we did any of that the FAA might get mad at us and we wouldn't want that 🙄

 

[GroundClutter]

I want to know where all these allegedly Type A controllers are and why these weak stick fucks are in charge of the union.

 

[Raise when?]

 

[ZuluZulu]

View attachment 9820

I keep reading these trying to find one that doesn’t apply…

 

[MKK]

All our mid lines are four 10 hour shifts. Swing, midday day rdo mid. Everyone else is 5 eight hour days. Typical 2/3 or 3/2 with just the 10 hours for the quick turn

 

[Spoony90]

All our mid lines are four 10 hour shifts. Swing, midday day rdo mid. Everyone else is 5 eight hour days. Typical 2/3 or 3/2 with just the 10 hours for the quick turn

This is the schedule I wanted. I was kinda doing it already. 2 hours of credit on my 3 swings. Leave on my forth day and then my 9 hour mid
But management here says it’s illegal to work a 10 hour mid 🙄

 

[ManBearPig]

This is the schedule I wanted. I was kinda doing it already. 2 hours of credit on my 3 swings. Leave on my forth day and then my 9 hour mid
But management here says it’s illegal to work a 10 hour mid 🙄

Bro burn that down. Thats bullshit and they know it.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Bro burn that down. Thats bullshit and they know it.

Spelled out in the 7210.3 2-6-7 b.8. No day shift of any kind can precede a 10 hour mid shift.

 

[LazyBones]

Spelled out in the 7210.3 2-6-7 b.8. No day shift of any kind can precede a 10 hour mid shift.

It says “No day shift may immediately precede a ten (10) hour midnight shift”

The first guy mentions it’s a swing-midday- day-RDO-mid. Surely it can’t be considered immediate if there’s a day off in between.

I understand why the second option doesn’t fly since he’s technically taking leave on his 4th day and trying to roll into a mid but he mentions it’s only 9 hours not 10.

So could he not work a day shift prior to a 9 hour midnight shift vs. a 10 hour shift?

 

[Mike Kilo]

It says “No day shift may immediately precede a ten (10) hour midnight shift”

The first guy mentions it’s a swing-midday- day-RDO-mid. Surely it can’t be considered immediate if there’s a day off in between.

I understand why the second option doesn’t fly since he’s technically taking leave on his 4th day and trying to roll into a mid but he mentions it’s only 9 hours not 10.

So could he not work a day prior to a 9 hour midnight shift vs. a 10 hour shift?

That’s exactly what he is doing. I’m just saying his management isn’t full of shit reference not letting him come in for two hours of credit and a 10 hour mid when he has worked the day shift prior.

I think half the country is trying to do 10 hour split RDOs to cover mids so I am not saying that isn’t allowed.

 

[ManBearPig]

That’s exactly what he is doing. I’m just saying his management isn’t full of shit reference not letting him come in for two hours of credit and a 10 hour mid when he has worked the day shift prior.

I think half the country is trying to do 10 hour split RDOs to cover mids so I am not saying that isn’t allowed.

Ask spoony but I think he is saying he wants the split RDO with a 10 hour mid after a the RDO.

He's saying he is already basically working that schedule by earning and burning credit.

 

[Mike Kilo]

Ask spoony but I think he is saying he wants the split RDO with a 10 hour mid after a the RDO.

He's saying he is already basically working that schedule by earning and burning credit.

I gotcha, I was assuming just a couple hours of spot leave. Even with leave on a full day, those hours still count against us for fatigue rules (at the facilities I’ve been at anyway) so that wouldn’t fly. I’ve been counseled a few times for signing in and breaking the nine hour rule when I wasn’t even at work the day prior lol.

 

[Spoony90]

Ask spoony but I think he is saying he wants the split RDO with a 10 hour mid after a the RDO.

He's saying he is already basically working that schedule by earning and burning credit.

This is exactly correct.

 

[soccerpunk]

Any facilties have a 2 person mid with 10 hour mids starting at 9pm for this new MOU negotiations? What happens with the mid memo that came out years ago requiring two people upstairs until midnight?

 

[32andBelow]

Any facilties have a 2 person mid with 10 hour mids starting at 9pm for this new MOU negotiations? What happens with the mid memo that came out years ago requiring two people upstairs until midnight?

Not a tower but we will have other people working 12-10 so it’s not like the mid people need to take Position right at 9

 

[ManBearPig]

Any facilties have a 2 person mid with 10 hour mids starting at 9pm for this new MOU negotiations? What happens with the mid memo that came out years ago requiring two people upstairs until midnight?

So far it stays in effect. So 2 up until midnight.

 

[soccerpunk]

Our tower only has 4-6 scheduled arrivals from 10pm-midnight. I am sure other towers are similar and the FAA/Natca needs to determine the rules based on traffic. Such a waste.