2018 Busiest US Facilities

[Stinger]

EWR area has 17 positions including fd

I spent time at a level 9 up/down where we had to certify on 4 tower positions plus data, and then 13 tracon positions plus 2 radar datas.
CLT/PHL/MIA (and now AZO) where they don't have to get facility rated is almost a scam in my eyes.

 

[DankVectorz]

Out of curiosity, how many positions do you guys have open on an average day?

Well some of the positions are flow dependent, so it’s 1 scope but depending on whether we are landings 22’s or 4’s it’s a different position (such as feed and final) but you’re required to train and certify on each flow. So although we have 17 positions, 1 FD and 2 handoffs, it’s really 14 scopes you have to get. When we are “fat” staffed in that couple hours when the days and swings are both in, we’ll on average have 6-7 scopes open. On weekends a lot of times we can only open 2-3 scopes for the entire day shift.

Isn’t that a bit misleading though? Even if you had unlimited CPCs and opened every single position that actually talks to planes, wouldn’t that max out at like 8 positions at a time? I know you guys have to certify separately on ARD/NArr/Final in both flows, but do any other TRACONs count different flows as separate positions? When someone certifies on Final at C90, doesn't that just count as one position even though they're certified on all of the different flows? If they used that same logic, I think LGA would have like 30+ positions when you consider all their different config and climb possibilities.

I count anything you have to train and certify on separately to be different positions even if they share the same scope. Plus for D-scale purposes they’re counted as individual positions.

 

[DonnyDarcycle]

How many of these “busy” facilities go over 2 hours on position. I know at least 1 does....

 

[DankVectorz]

How many of these “busy” facilities go over 2 hours on position. I know at least 1 does....

That’s a poor metric. 1 hour at one facility is not like 1 hour at another.

 

[DonnyDarcycle]

That’s a poor metric. 1 hour at one facility is not like 1 hour at another.

So which of the busy facilities goes over two? I know at least one does

 

[penaltyvectors]

I count anything you have to train and certify on separately to be different positions even if they share the same scope.

Makes sense. Out of curiosity, do you track currency on ARD 22 separate from ARD 4, for example? Obviously this is unlikely, but it would be pretty funny if EWR was landing 22s nonstop for a month and suddenly the entire sector lost currency on the north flow.

 

[DankVectorz]

Makes sense. Out of curiosity, do you track currency on ARD 22 separate from ARD 4, for example? Obviously this is unlikely, but it would be pretty funny if EWR was landing 22s nonstop for a month and suddenly the entire sector lost currency on the north flow.

We do track currency but it’s never been an issue afaik

 

[Schu04]

Well some of the positions are flow dependent, so it’s 1 scope but depending on whether we are landings 22’s or 4’s it’s a different position (such as feed and final) but you’re required to train and certify on each flow. So although we have 17 positions, 1 FD and 2 handoffs, it’s really 14 scopes you have to get. When we are “fat” staffed in that couple hours when the days and swings are both in, we’ll on average have 6-7 scopes open. On weekends a lot of times we can only open 2-3 scopes for the entire day shift.

Dope. That 22 flow is crazy to watch when it gets busy

 

[DankVectorz]

Dope. That 22 flow is crazy to watch when it gets busy

And yet the 22’s are soooo much easier then the 4’s to learn.

 

[Dontbotherme]

OPEC1 Arrival baby!!!

 

[spider]

Some of you guys spend way too much time worrying about other facilities pay and CIP or lack thereof. I've been at two centers. I can't recall a single time where someone was complaining that another area shouldn't get the same pay -- well, except for TMU.

---

I do think we'd all be better off if we got to know each other a little better and that's not just recombining up/downs. I think sometimes bad blood develops between centers/TRACON's because neither wants to acknowledge that the other one can be just as busy at times and yeah, sometimes stuff like metering numbers get a little high and sometimes departures have some overtakes. Just fix it and move on.

 

[PushingTin]

Some of you guys spend way too much time worrying about other facilities pay and CIP or lack thereof.

Too much time is obviously relative, i'd say people dont spend enough time worrying about those things. And "worrying about others" seems to imply that the arguments are inappropriate and based solely for selfish jealous reasons, which is a very simplistic way to think about it. When people wore pins that said "i'm a 0% and I strive to to live up to that everyday", back in the 0%, 0.6, or 1.8?% raise days, would you have said stop complaining you just must not have deserved it? When there was A and B scale during the White book, did you tell the B scale to suck it up this is a good job with good benefits stop complaining and worry about yourself? Do you tell people not to worry if they get bypassed for OT because just worry about yourself dont worry that someone else got more?

If someone advocates for CIP or equal pay, or calls out something they sincerely believe is flawed/unfair/wrong, its a little bit of a slap in the face to just assume they're jealous or crying wolf or shouldnt worry about it. So i disagree. To want to be compensated equally is a good thing not a bad thing, and reasonable people can disagree on what constitutes fair.

 

[Phillyman2633]

Idk why everyone is whining about CIP inequality...everyone makes the same amount, right? At least for pp 19 and 20, that is.

 

[PushingTin]

How many of these “busy” facilities go over 2 hours on position. I know at least 1 does....

LOL! shhhh. a question like that gets a little too close for comfort. Some major Tracons claim staffing has been perpetually in the mid 40% since forrrrr-everrrr ... ask about their hour on hour off.

Errrr, ummm...i meannnn.... its CRAZZZZZYY planes every where, Traffic alerts! TCAS after TCAS, their printers have 4 times the strips loaded since they literally NEVER stop printing.... they dont get warm seats, theirs melt! New chairs weekly.... they dont even have time for Union meetings, CBIS, Prime time leave, RDOs, holidays.... they work str8 through! The money is great but theyre fingers are so gnarled and atrophied from the Carpel Tunnel of working that STARs keyboard that they can't even count it! and yet they walk amongst us.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

LOL! shhhh. a question like that gets a little too close for comfort. Some major Tracons claim staffing has been perpetually in the mid 40% since forrrrr-everrrr ... ask about their hour on hour off.

Errrr, ummm...i meannnn.... its CRAZZZZZYY planes every where, Traffic alerts! TCAS after TCAS, their printers have 4 times the strips loaded since they literally NEVER stop printing.... they dont get warm seats, theirs melt! New chairs weekly.... they dont even have time for Union meetings, CBIS, Prime time leave, RDOs, holidays.... they work str8 through! The money is great but theyre fingers are so gnarled and atrophied from the Carpel Tunnel of working that STARs keyboard that they can't even count it! and yet they walk amongst us.

I've worked at three large tracons and except for maybe a holiday when traffic is down have never worked an hour on and an hour off... Could you try to just be content with your own job for five minutes and stop complaining about everyone else?

 

[DankVectorz]

I've worked at three large tracons and except for maybe a holiday when traffic is down have never worked an hour on and an hour off... Could you try to just be content with your own job for five minutes and stop complaining about everyone else?

But that’s so much less draaammmaaattttiiiiccc

 

[PushingTin]

I've worked at three large tracons and except for maybe a holiday when traffic is down have never worked an hour on and an hour off... Could you try to just be content with your own job for five minutes and stop complaining about everyone else?

Thank you for your service!

 

[gunf1ghter]

Yes, because MIA and CLT controllers should have to certify and maintain currency on 15 to 20 positions. GTFOH. I smell jealousy

To my point, it would be different if they could work different positions. But they've essentially hard split the facility, even those who want to go do the other specialty, can't. If you're downstairs you're in the radar room, or in Miami's case, if you're a tower controller you work tower and departure, but if you're an approach controller you can never go upstairs to the tower.

Not jealous, I'm happy with maintaining currency on my 15 positions.

 

[trvcoastaviator]

To my point, it would be different if they could work different positions. But they've essentially hard split the facility, even those who want to go do the other specialty, can't. If you're downstairs you're in the radar room, or in Miami's case, if you're a tower controller you work tower and departure, but if you're an approach controller you can never go upstairs to the tower.

Not jealous, I'm happy with maintaining currency on my 15 positions.

Not sure where the rumor started but I've heard it before. A- side controllers (tower plus half tracon) work more than just departures. They also work feeder and final to FLL and several satellite scopes. Have to certify on 8 of the 14 scopes. There is a process available for becoming dual qualified for the entire facility but too many trainees now for that to happen.

 

[gunf1ghter]

Thanks for the response.

Seriously though, CLT is in for a world of hurt when they remove the crossing runway.