Serious ALPA Payroll Support

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
3,234
41% of normal passenger count yesterday 877,000. It’ll be interesting to see what happens when the vaccine dropsb
 

edds93

Trusted Contributor
Messages
205
My only concern is at the moment no “up and coming” company exists to step in and fill the void. Natural competition should occur, I agree, but in the absence of it we have a void that could potentially have a cascading effect. Nationalising an airline in the interim until its assets can be auctioned off/sold to a new buyer to keep some semblance of inter-state commerce/transportation/cargo going would be a a solution?
Not every airline is in equally bad situations. Southwest is in a much better position than American for example. Absent government interference in the market, the strongest airlines would outlast the weaker ones until supply dropped to a place to meet demand. If demand begins to exceed supply in the future, the airlines still around would compete to fulfill that demand until the market found balance. With the current situation, All of these airlines will continue to fight over scraps and get by on government handouts until they are all weakened to the point that none of them can survive without the government.
 

Shikaka

Legendary Member
Messages
1,756
I would suggest going through their unions if you want to help them but not the company.
 

Mike Kilo

Legendary Member
Messages
1,454
My only concern is at the moment no “up and coming” company exists to step in and fill the void. Natural competition should occur, I agree, but in the absence of it we have a void that could potentially have a cascading effect. Nationalising an airline in the interim until its assets can be auctioned off/sold to a new buyer to keep some semblance of inter-state commerce/transportation/cargo going would be a a solution?
I’ve read a few articles about new airlines being started lately. The hole will be filled, as with any demand.
 

AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise

Trusted Contributor
Messages
147
I agreed with you up until you guys started talking about nationalizing the airlines. Airlines, as well as all businesses, need to be allowed to fail. That is what keeps capitalism balanced. The problem is that we don't really have capitalism in the U.S. anymore. The single biggest problem with the economy is that the Fed has kept interest rates near zero for over a decade. Corporations have been enabled to take on more and more debt than they would otherwise be able to in a free market because there is no price discovery. Companies go public and don't have to make any profits for years and years because their losses are subsidized by the stock market and investors who can borrow money at near 0% interest. It doesn't pay to be responsible and have a sound balance sheet when if you fail, the government is going to bail you out anyways. This only increases moral hazard as more companies are encouraged to be reckless and borrow more. Same with local governments. Low interest rates have allowed states and municipalities to live far beyond their means for too long while running up the balance sheet. Now many governments have no choice but to default or raise taxes higher on their already fleeing tax bases. NYC, Chicago, and Illinois have some of the most toxic balance sheets but refuse to cut spending. Instead they want the Federal government to bail them out so they don't have to live with the consequences of their policies. The problem is that if they get bailed out, then all the responsible local governments would have been dumb to balance their budget so it encourages everyone to be reckless knowing that there is always a bailout to save them. Federal debt is just as toxic but the only thing that separates the Fed from the State and local gov is a printing press.

It's a self perpetuating death spiral that is the U.S. economy and can only be "sustained" by ever increasing debt added to the system. Meanwhile, the wealth inequality gap gets wider until one day it all comes crashing down.

As far as nationalizing the airlines go, we're already headed down that path basically even if they're not outright saying it. If the airlines get bailed out but they have all these stipulations that make it so they can't ever make a profit (i.e. can't downsize, restructure, cut jobs) then they are essentially a zombie company that will need to continually need to be funded by the taxpayer in perpetuity. Everyone is so afraid to let the airlines declare bankruptcy but it is much needed. Bankruptcy doesn't necessarily mean they go out of business either, but rather is a way for them to restructure their debt and downsize to become profitable once again.
I agreed with you up until you guys started talking about nationalizing the airlines. Airlines, as well as all businesses, need to be allowed to fail. That is what keeps capitalism balanced. The problem is that we don't really have capitalism in the U.S. anymore. The single biggest problem with the economy is that the Fed has kept interest rates near zero for over a decade. Corporations have been enabled to take on more and more debt than they would otherwise be able to in a free market because there is no price discovery. Companies go public and don't have to make any profits for years and years because their losses are subsidized by the stock market and investors who can borrow money at near 0% interest. It doesn't pay to be responsible and have a sound balance sheet when if you fail, the government is going to bail you out anyways. This only increases moral hazard as more companies are encouraged to be reckless and borrow more. Same with local governments. Low interest rates have allowed states and municipalities to live far beyond their means for too long while running up the balance sheet. Now many governments have no choice but to default or raise taxes higher on their already fleeing tax bases. NYC, Chicago, and Illinois have some of the most toxic balance sheets but refuse to cut spending. Instead they want the Federal government to bail them out so they don't have to live with the consequences of their policies. The problem is that if they get bailed out, then all the responsible local governments would have been dumb to balance their budget so it encourages everyone to be reckless knowing that there is always a bailout to save them. Federal debt is just as toxic but the only thing that separates the Fed from the State and local gov is a printing press.

It's a self perpetuating death spiral that is the U.S. economy and can only be "sustained" by ever increasing debt added to the system. Meanwhile, the wealth inequality gap gets wider until one day it all comes crashing down.

As far as nationalizing the airlines go, we're already headed down that path basically even if they're not outright saying it. If the airlines get bailed out but they have all these stipulations that make it so they can't ever make a profit (i.e. can't downsize, restructure, cut jobs) then they are essentially a zombie company that will need to continually need to be funded by the taxpayer in perpetuity. Everyone is so afraid to let the airlines declare bankruptcy but it is much needed. Bankruptcy doesn't necessarily mean they go out of business either, but rather is a way for them to restructure their debt and downsize to become profitable once again.
I agree with you wholeheartedly about allowing Poorly run airlines to fail, but you and I both know our congress and president wouldn’t allow that to happen. Not a snowballs chance in hell of them doing the right thing. Hell a few more down days in the stock market and they’ll probably get double what they’re asking for. By the way, the way you speak about all of this reminds me of Peter Schiff.
 

edds93

Trusted Contributor
Messages
205
I agree with you wholeheartedly about allowing Poorly run airlines to fail, but you and I both know our congress and president wouldn’t allow that to happen. Not a snowballs chance in hell of them doing the right thing. Hell a few more down days in the stock market and they’ll probably get double what they’re asking for. By the way, the way you speak about all of this reminds me of Peter Schiff.
Peter taught me pretty much everything I know haha.
 

FightingIrish2012

Forum Sage
Messages
860
This is tricky because the airlines were essentially bailed out in April. Now they want an extension, so do they get another 5 months to March 1st? Most airlines said they are cutting flight options and routes through the holidays and into 2021, so the airlines will not be in any better shape by March 1st. Are you going to gamble that there is a vaccine that actually works and that the sheeple will start to fly right away? I don't think so, gyms, restaurants and bars that I seen reopened are a fraction as busy as before. So what do you do then, keep bailing them out? You would think a line needs to be drawn somewhere but you can always print more money, so maybe not.
 

Billybob

Trusted Contributor
Messages
198
As much as I would like to support pilots/flight attendants because we are two different branches on the same tree, it wouldn't even be a drop in the bucket of what they would need.
.
There are roughly 14.000 ATC's in the U.S. If we all donated $10, that's a measly $140,000. This is a bad situation and I don't see a possibility of my money doing anybody any good.
 

AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise

Trusted Contributor
Messages
147
delta announced they are furloughing ZERO flight attendants
I have a family member who works as a flight attendant for Delta. They aren’t furloughing anyone which is fantastic. However, they have reassigned many flight attendants, my family member included, to different positions. Right now She’s filling the snack bags and putting the carts on the airplane until the end of October for $40/hour. Generally they’re getting 20-30 hours a week and she can pick up a trip as a flight attendant on the side on her off days. Not a bad gig.
 
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