Conditional Security Clearance denied

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So I found out this afternoon that my conditional security clearance was denied. To say i'm discouraged is putting it lightly, i'm taking it pretty hard and i'm hoping someone can provide color on what the "full investigation" entails, and my chances at this point.

Security asked me for two statements from my past regarding

1. A DUI i received in college 5 years ago.
2. Termination from a prior employer.

I gathered as many supporting documents as i could and issued two page statements on both of these incidents. I contacted my security POC today to ensure she had received all 13 attachments i'd provided, and she let me know I was not being granted a conditional clearance, and to expect the full investigative process to take "9-12" months.

The reason for my denial was due to the termination. My prior employer did not and will not provide a termination letter, and i took it upon myself to provide the details. I won't go into defending myself here, i'll just say that i do feel i was unjustly terminated without prior warning. My stated reasons for being let go were "playing chess during work hours" and "Missing a day of training". These are the reasons i listed on my statement. I was told that this showed bad judgment, and that i could not be recommended for a conditional clearance.

So, it is what it is. I'm a little surprised that it's not the DUI, and rather my termination that's leaving me out here. I'm currently a Senior financial analyst for a well known respected firm, my ability to acquire and maintain jobs with high levels of responsibility i wouldn't think would be in question. Regardless, my question that is really weighing on me is this,

Am I substantially more unlikely to obtain a clearance now? It's hard for me to equate how playing chess at work would make me a risk to national security. I understand the point about bad judgment of playing games while working, I do not understand why that would make me unable to obtain a clearance to train for a job i've already been vetted for.

Do I still have a shot at this? Or do i need to start mentally preparing myself for the fact that i'm not gonna get a chance at the academy here? I didn't think i'd take it this hard, kinda feels like i've been hit by a train :\
 

Hitchcock

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So I found out this afternoon that my conditional security clearance was denied. To say i'm discouraged is putting it lightly, i'm taking it pretty hard and i'm hoping someone can provide color on what the "full investigation" entails, and my chances at this point.

Security asked me for two statements from my past regarding

1. A DUI i received in college 5 years ago.
2. Termination from a prior employer.

I gathered as many supporting documents as i could and issued two page statements on both of these incidents. I contacted my security POC today to ensure she had received all 13 attachments i'd provided, and she let me know I was not being granted a conditional clearance, and to expect the full investigative process to take "9-12" months.

The reason for my denial was due to the termination. My prior employer did not and will not provide a termination letter, and i took it upon myself to provide the details. I won't go into defending myself here, i'll just say that i do feel i was unjustly terminated without prior warning. My stated reasons for being let go were "playing chess during work hours" and "Missing a day of training". These are the reasons i listed on my statement. I was told that this showed bad judgment, and that i could not be recommended for a conditional clearance.

So, it is what it is. I'm a little surprised that it's not the DUI, and rather my termination that's leaving me out here. I'm currently a Senior financial analyst for a well known respected firm, my ability to acquire and maintain jobs with high levels of responsibility i wouldn't think would be in question. Regardless, my question that is really weighing on me is this,

Am I substantially more unlikely to obtain a clearance now? It's hard for me to equate how playing chess at work would make me a risk to national security. I understand the point about bad judgment of playing games while working, I do not understand why that would make me unable to obtain a clearance to train for a job i've already been vetted for.

Do I still have a shot at this? Or do i need to start mentally preparing myself for the fact that i'm not gonna get a chance at the academy here? I didn't think i'd take it this hard, kinda feels like i've been hit by a train :\
I'd say it's a 50/50 chance, you have red flags in security and medical. Regardless if you get through it wont be for a long time carry on life as usual. Per the document you have listed it would be a no. Was the termination within the last 5 years?
 

Hitchcock

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Any discharge from employment or resignation after being told he or she would be fired, within the last 5 years.
pg. 55
 

asitter

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Pretty interested stuff. Hope it all goes well for you. I was actually fired from a job, but I was a few months over that five year period mentioned in the document, so I guess I was in the clear!
 
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Any discharge from employment or resignation after being told he or she would be fired, within the last 5 years.
pg. 55
Yes, my DUI was over 5 years ago, however, the discharge was about 12 months ago.

I actually found that portion ( pages 55ish) to be encouraging, if the PSS cannot by definition hire me with a conditional clearance with a discharge within 5 years then maybe it's standard protocol? It's not saying unable to be hired, but unable to be issued conditional clearance. Page 55 is for waiver requests of full investigation, ie "conditional clearance. Would you agree with that assessment? It's not a guideline on hiring, that portion is a guideline for waiver of full investigation.

But there's stories all over here and stuckmic of people having been terminated in the last 5 and breezing through.... hell there's some in the security thread on this forum.

I'm in OKC right now after I was fired as an RPO from the academy about 3 years ago lol. I honestly don't think this will be an issue. I was just asked to provide more details on the circumstances of my termination.

- example quote from stuckmic

I really hope i'm able to articulately explain my situation, and show that I have proven progressive history of responsible employment. I guess if i was on the HR side, I would say "Senior financial analyst" shows a level of trust and responsibility that delivering pizza's may not require. It's the only termination i've had in my 29 years of life, and took a more senior position with another company immediately. I'm not sure how else to prove i can make sound judgment calls. The security contact certainly made it sound like there wasn't much chance left.
 
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Hitchcock

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Yes, my DUI was over 5 years ago, however, the discharge was about 12 months ago.

I actually found that portion ( pages 55ish) to be encouraging, if the PSS cannot by definition hire me with a conditional clearance with a discharge within 5 years then maybe it's standard protocol? It's not saying unable to be hired, but unable to be issued conditional clearance. Page 55 is for waiver requests of full investigation, ie "conditional clearance. Would you agree with that assessment? It's not a guideline on hiring, that portion is a guideline for waiver of full investigation.

But there's stories all over here and stuckmic of people having been terminated in the last 5 and breezing through.... hell there's some in the security thread on this forum.

I'm in OKC right now after I was fired as an RPO from the academy about 3 years ago lol. I honestly don't think this will be an issue. I was just asked to provide more details on the circumstances of my termination.

- example quote from stuckmic

I really hope i'm able to articulately explain my situation, and show that I have proven progressive history of responsible employment. I guess if i was on the HR side, I would say "Senior financial analyst" shows a level of trust and responsibility that delivering pizza's may not require. It's the only termination i've had in my 29 years of life, and took a more senior position with another company immediately. I'm not sure how else to prove i can make sound judgment calls. The security contact certainly made it sound like there wasn't much chance left.
I think you will be fine but the combination of things might not be similar to others situations. Someone who was terminated within the last 3 years might not also have a DUI and an extensive medical history. I don't think any one thing would keep you out but the combination of them could. That's why i would say its 50/50 and a long wait. I don't want to drag you down or make you think you won't get it, I sincerely hope you do. Good luck!
 
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Agreed. Page 30 in that document has that "risk point" grid so i'm sure the combination of different things isn't helping me. Hope I see you at a center one of these days soon.
 

squawkIFR

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Are Letters of Reprimand (LOR) and Letters of Counseling in the military taken in to consideration for the security clearance?
 

YouAppearToBeOnFire

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Are Letters of Reprimand (LOR) and Letters of Counseling in the military taken in to consideration for the security clearance?
Not unless there was a court martial to my knowledge. Most LORs and counseling statements are kept at the company level of where they occur. Usually destroyed after a certain time period.
 

squawkIFR

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Not unless there was a court martial to my knowledge. Most LORs and counseling statements are kept at the company level of where they occur. Usually destroyed after a certain time period.
Thanks man. I was thinking the same thing. Like yeah I’ve gotten LOCs before. They are so petty. It just wouldn’t make sense why I would have to do that.
 

YouAppearToBeOnFire

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  • Details of any court martial or other disciplinary procedure under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), (Article 15, Captain's mast, Article 135 Court of Inquiry, etc.) in the last 7 years
That's what I found. So LOR and counseling wouldn't qualify to my knowledge. Also notice the UCMJ part. So if it happened while in the national guard, those states have their own code of military justice. So that wouldn't count as being needed to disclosed as per the language. (I'm not a lawyer but I guarantee if they tried to raise a stink and you FOIA/sued over it that would be brought up).
 
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A contracted investigator will be conducting my interview tomorrow morning at the local library. I think i somehow satisfied the numerous requests from medical, this is all that's left here.

I have 51 documents in my "ATC submitted docs" desktop folder, kind of numb to all the requests now. I'd Estimate $1,500 spent acquiring the documents that satisfied the medical portion.

Feeling moderately more hopeful now, didn't think i'd clear medical back in December/January.
 
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NavyTrev

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A contracted investigator will be conducting my interview tomorrow morning at the local library. I think i somehow satisfied the numerous requests from medical, this is all that's left here.

I have 51 documents in my "ATC submitted docs" desktop folder, kind of numb to all the requests now. I'd Estimate $1,500 spent acquiring the documents that satisfied the medical portion.

Feeling moderately more hopeful now, didn't think i'd clear medical back in December/January.
I had a class B misdemeanor that was in conjunction with a job termination. I had to meet with an investigator before the Navy could give me my clearance. While processing for the FAA (the mistemanor and termination was a little over 5 years at that time) I was contacted by an investigator and had to give a statement on the prior charges. Everything went smoothly in both instances, just took more time for my clearance to come back) I’d think that the agency spending money on an investigator to come interview you instead of just saying no is a good sign, just be honest.
 

KEEPER4560

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I know many people who have managed to get in with just as serious(if not more) serious things on their records. Obviously there’s a lot of factors that play into getting through all the hoops before the academy but I personally would find it pretty hard to believe you’ll be full blown denied a full security clearance for a job termination issue. The DUI could play a part in your medical as well.

Just knowing a lot of people who have and still are jumping through rings of fire to get stuff squared away, like others have said, you need to live life normally and continue on but I wouldn’t get discouraged. It’s just going to be a long process.
 
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Thanks guys.

We finished in two hours, basically touched on those two topics and i think I explained my side reasonably well. The rest was going almost line by line through the SF-86 verifying things.

Sounds like they'll be contacting a lot of references in the near future, definitely have to expect a few more months wait time here, but the end is in sight I think! Have to keep reminding myself it could adjudicate negatively, but statistically, I wouldn't think i'm out of the game here after perusing the net and seeing how many clearances get denied and what for.

I'll be stoked if i get an FOL by the end of the year.
 
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