DCA what is going on

[Spoony90]

Do doctors have supervisors that are retarded and incompetent like we do? That alone grants us a 1000% pay raise to deal with these stupid ass supes

 

[Mike Kilo]

Do doctors have supervisors that are retarded and incompetent like we do? That alone grants us a 1000% pay raise to deal with these stupid ass supes

Yes they do. Hospital management….

 

[Somenewguy]

Do doctors have supervisors that are retarded and incompetent like we do? That alone grants us a 1000% pay raise to deal with these stupid ass supes

Literally yes. Hospital management often does not understand very basic patient care needs. Except they're profit driven and can actually do shit to you like cut your pay. Unlike FAA supes who you can mostly just ignore and do your thing.

 

[Spoony90]

Yes they do. Hospital management….

I really hope they have better management than we do. Which is everyone else says about us. It’s all a joke

 

[KP-ATC]

Do doctors have supervisors that are retarded and incompetent like we do? That alone grants us a 1000% pay raise to deal with these stupid ass supes

Yes, they do.

I really hope they have better management than we do. Which is everyone else says about us. It’s all a joke

They don't. And because of Obamacare, they are nearly as stuck as we are.

 

[AB19]

The middle 50 percent of engineers make 81-112k and an engineering degree is significantly harder to obtain

 

[FlightOfTheShortGuy]

Pilot is a good comparison

Pilots make doctor money now lol

 

[KP-ATC]

Pilots make doctor money now lol

Most of them don't.

 

[the inquirer]

Most of them don't.

You’re right. Most pilots fly bug smashers and want to do an aerial survey right in your arrival corridor.

 

[32andBelow]

Pilots make doctor money now lol

Cool. But just compare us to pilots and not doctors.

 

[DADDYSbabyBIRD]

lmao. “Turn 30 degrees right, vector for traffic” or “amend altitude maintain…” is not the same as knowing about the human body and how to remedy disease. Or surgery. We have a great job with a lot of responsibilities, but for fuck’s sake this is not physician level brain power we’re doing.

Surgeons, ER docs, specialist... sure they use brain power. Regular docs... unless script following pull pushers.

 

[FlightOfTheShortGuy]

Cool. But just compare us to pilots and not doctors.

I took the doctor comparison to deal with numbers of peoples lives. That’s why said in my post I’m not asking to get paid like a doctor but my pay should be increased by quite a bit.

 

[32andBelow]

I took the doctor comparison to deal with numbers of peoples lives. That’s why said in my post I’m not asking to get paid like a doctor but my pay should be increased by quite a bit.

Just take the percentage of aviation raises in the last 5-10 years. pilots TSA everyone

 

[Rx]

I took the doctor comparison to deal with numbers of peoples lives. That’s why said in my post I’m not asking to get paid like a doctor but my pay should be increased by quite a bit.

Comprehension proves to be quite difficult for some people. They want spoon fed comparisons. Not quantities. “You can’t say doctor but you can say pilot” while some cargo pilots make upwards of $700k which is MORE than doctors. We’re fucked as a nation.

 

[Acquired Taste]

I think you guys are forgetting a big piece of the puzzle. Wages are a price and prices are determined by supply and demand. That's why pilots and doctors get paid so much. There's large demand for qualified workers and a limited pool of candidates to fill those jobs so the pay and benefits are very competitive in filling the jobs because that's how the free market works.

Unfortunately, ATC isn't a free market. It's a government controlled monopoly that has no incentive to provide a good service, make a profit, or be efficient. With that, they have gotten away with paying stagnant wages, short staffing, and benefits that continually get worse. There is a large demand for controllers, especially good controllers, but it will be harder and harder to attract competent workers in the market who are willing to make a career out of this profession that had been in an abysmal state of decline and left behind by it's peers. For anyone who got to a level 10+ before covid, and especially those hired before 2013 (and only contribute 0.8% of salary to their pension vs 4.4% now), the getting was good. The people at my facility who got in just 5-10 years before me got sent straight to a high level and were able to afford a 3500 sq ft McMansion for $250k using the spare change in their pocket as a down payment and locked in at a sub 3% interest rate. Since then, their house has more than doubled and the interest rates are 7%. I can not afford a house. I pay more to rent my 1 bed/1 bath apartment than my very fortunate coworkers mortgage.

I work more 6 day weeks than not. I work nights, weekends, and holidays. I can't take spot leave. I couldn't transfer from my first low level shit hole that was halfway across the country from my family for more than 5 years. I missed about 6 Thanksgivings/Christmas' with family and I'll probably miss the next 6 with my seniority. I can't work from home. I can't even catch a "free" flight anymore from the jump seat.

All of that makes this job a hard sell when there are plenty of Monday-Friday remote work jobs with normal work life balance, better pay and benefits. Competent people you would want working next to you have much better options and few people are willing to uproot their life with hardly any say in where they end up just to make 80k as a level 5 cpc in BFE indefinitely. So instead we end up with those who take the job because this is the best they can get. We are hiring from the bottom of the job seeking pool. Facilties are so desperate for bodies and it's impossible to wash people now anyway so we just keep lowering the standard and keep ending up in national headlines.

The only solution is to restore dignity and professionalism to this career via massive pay increases. Call me crazy but I think a freshly certified level 12 controller should be able to afford a middle class home with a commute within 20 minutes of work without needing to spend 50% of their monthly net take home pay on their mortgage.

I believe it would be wise to tie our pay to pilot pay. I recognize the barrier to entry is lower for controllers so I'd propose that the starting CPC salary band for a level 12 with rest of US locality is 70% of the average first year captain's base pay at the 4 largest airlines (DAL AAL UAL SWA). Their base pay is about 330k which means level 12 base at RUS locality should be 231k. Starting pay at level 4 should be equivalent to 2nd year FO pay at the highest paying regional airline. That runs at about 105k. Divide up the rest of the bands somewhere in between there and tie our raises to theirs since they have leverage to actually command good raises.

 

[AB19]

We deserve to get paid more, most controllers who aren't in California are at least middle class if not upper class. Most controllers also would never be able to get one of those high paying remote jobs. Getting mad about not being able to afford housing has little to do with our pay and more to do about the housing market itself. They were able to time the market, they were lucky. The median household income in the country is less than 80k I promise you almost all the cpcs outside of level 4s are making that by themselves let alone a household. We are very privileged, again that doesn't mean we don't deserve more

 

[KiloZulu]

We deserve to get paid more, most controllers who aren't in California are at least middle class if not upper class.

And let's be real, most of the level 11/12 guys in California are doing just fine making almost 200k a year.

 

[Whiskey Charlie]

And let's be real, most of the level 11/12 guys in California are doing just fine making almost 200k a year.

You all realize there are many states comparable to California at this point right? Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, some east coast states.. basically if you aren’t in the midwest COL sucks and even the Midwest sucks from where is used to be.

 

[EightTwoSierra]

And let's be real, most of the level 11/12 guys in California are doing just fine making almost 200k a year.

But us at all the 5s-7s aren’t having such a good time with this cost of living in CA lol.. I’d like to move up but we don’t have staffing to ever release anyone.

 

[corn4ahead]

I still can’t believe there are people that are current controllers that are defending our pay…Like no. I’m good, I get paid enough.

Dafuq? You don’t want more money?

Crazy. No matter what, we should always ask for more. Crazy people.