DCA what is going on

[bravounite33]

I still can’t believe there are people that are current controllers that are defending our pay…Like no. I’m good, I get paid enough.

Dafuq? You don’t want more money?

Crazy. No matter what, we should always ask for more. Crazy people.

I'm all for getting a raise even though I'm comfortable with my finances now and make enough to live my life how I want to live it. But I'm also not stupid and realize that there are a LOT of controllers that aren't in my position and making half of what I make if even that. You're never going to find me saying we shouldn't be getting a raise.

However, I will say that people are crazy if they think we are going to be making anywhere close to what pilots are making now. I say that just because we are government employees. If we were privatized, then that goes out the window and MAYBE then we could at least start getting close to them. But in the mean time, there's no way a controller is going to ever be paid more than the administrator, who won't be getting more than cabinet level secretaries, who won't be making more than the president. It's just not going to happen. To make that kind of money, you have to get out of the government.

I think there is definitely room to raise the pay across the board without getting up to the cap and that should be pursued in the next contract negotiations. Especially for the lower levels, they need a raise a hell of a lot more than I do. But you have to be realistic about it and not be expecting $300k+ as a base salary in a government job. If you want that money, you need to be fighting for privatization or get a new job.

 

[32andBelow]

I'm all for getting a raise even though I'm comfortable with my finances now and make enough to live my life how I want to live it. But I'm also not stupid and realize that there are a LOT of controllers that aren't in my position and making half of what I make if even that. You're never going to find me saying we shouldn't be getting a raise.

However, I will say that people are crazy if they think we are going to be making anywhere close to what pilots are making now. I say that just because we are government employees. If we were privatized, then that goes out the window and MAYBE then we could at least start getting close to them. But in the mean time, there's no way a controller is going to ever be paid more than the administrator, who won't be getting more than cabinet level secretaries, who won't be making more than the president. It's just not going to happen. To make that kind of money, you have to get out of the government.

I think there is definitely room to raise the pay across the board without getting up to the cap and that should be pursued in the next contract negotiations. Especially for the lower levels, they need a raise a hell of a lot more than I do. But you have to be realistic about it and not be expecting $300k+ as a base salary in a government job. If you want that money, you need to be fighting for privatization or get a new job.

no one is saying make as much as the pilots are making. More like If they got x% then that’s the % we should shoot for.

 

[Rx]

I'm all for getting a raise even though I'm comfortable with my finances now and make enough to live my life how I want to live it. But I'm also not stupid and realize that there are a LOT of controllers that aren't in my position and making half of what I make if even that. You're never going to find me saying we shouldn't be getting a raise.

However, I will say that people are crazy if they think we are going to be making anywhere close to what pilots are making now. I say that just because we are government employees. If we were privatized, then that goes out the window and MAYBE then we could at least start getting close to them. But in the mean time, there's no way a controller is going to ever be paid more than the administrator, who won't be getting more than cabinet level secretaries, who won't be making more than the president. It's just not going to happen. To make that kind of money, you have to get out of the government.

I think there is definitely room to raise the pay across the board without getting up to the cap and that should be pursued in the next contract negotiations. Especially for the lower levels, they need a raise a hell of a lot more than I do. But you have to be realistic about it and not be expecting $300k+ as a base salary in a government job. If you want that money, you need to be fighting for privatization or get a new job.

If I’m not mistaking there’s an MOU that allows facilities that live in high cost living areas to make more than the FAA administrator. The legislative cap is currently at $221,900. Max salary at ZNY and ZOA exceeds that. If we can circumvent that 1999 legislation in the next negotiations for all facilities. We’ll be making ground.

 

[Raise when?]

The middle 50 percent of engineers make 81-112k and an engineering degree is significantly harder to obtain

What about requiring a medical. We can hardly take any drugs without losing our medical. Quick turns, mids, nights, weekends, holidays, 6 day weeks. This job takes a toll on you. I guarantee the avg controller lifespan is shorter than the avg engineer’s.

Blows my mind all the idiots in this job that argue against making more money.

 

[AB19]

What about requiring a medical. We can hardly take any drugs without losing our medical. Quick turns, mids, nights, weekends, holidays, 6 day weeks. This job takes a toll on you. I guarantee the avg controller lifespan is shorter than the avg engineer’s.

Blows my mind all the idiots in this job that argue against making more money.

Don't disagree with anything you said, have always said we should be paid more, but a lot of people on here are delusional about what we would make in a different job

 

[Dolan]

However, I will say that people are crazy if they think we are going to be making anywhere close to what pilots are making now. I say that just because we are government employees. If we were privatized, then that goes out the window and MAYBE then we could at least start getting close to them. But in the mean time, there's no way a controller is going to ever be paid more than the administrator, who won't be getting more than cabinet level secretaries, who won't be making more than the president. It's just not going to happen. To make that kind of money, you have to get out of the government.

Pilot's salary today is just their pre-covid inflation salaries adjusted for inflation. That's all. Private sector just reacts to the sinking power of the dollar much faster than government. Controllers and all government sectors that have been left in the dust should absolutely be fighting for the same increase.

TSA certainly got a raise commensurate with inflation and they did so by citing the exact same reasons that NATCA should be - namely "This is the first major pay raise since the creation of TSA 21 years ago and a monumental step toward fighting the high attrition rate and difficulties in recruiting and retention TSA has experienced" from an article about it I found.

You just arent going to attract the talent that that you used to be able to if the salary doesn't remain competitive. Whether the flying public is willing to accept the increased risk is up to their elected officials but NATCA should absolutely be raising awareness about the issue and letting people know about the changing landscape.

 

[PooseMaGoose]

Don't disagree with anything you said, have always said we should be paid more, but a lot of people on here are delusional about what we would make in a different job

Agreed. Two things can be true at the same time. Yes, we should be paid more commensurate with the responsibility of the job... AND yes, we tend to live and think in a bubble; disconnected from the reality of not only the rest of the agency, but the private sector. It makes sense that our workforce, largely comprised of competitive, type A ego-monsters, would overestimate our worth salary-wise in other fields.

 

[Acquired Taste]

Don't disagree with anything you said, have always said we should be paid more, but a lot of people on here are delusional about what we would make in a different job

That's like saying pilots, doctors, and lawyers, and software engineers are overpaid because they'd never make that much if they switched careers. It takes years of specialized training and refining our craft to be good enough to certify at a high level facility, just like it takes those other professions many years to reach the pinnacle of their careers. Not everyone can do this job, especially at a high level. I happen to think it's bullshit that the base pay for a new cpc at a place like A80 is less than half what a new 737 captain makes on the delta flight they're sequencing in to ATL. This job has not kept up.

Now maybe if you're getting 30% locality, 8% CIP, and the housing market in your area is somewhat reasonable, you might feel solidly middle class. But no one in this job is upper class from their salaries alone. I bet the people in MIA aren't feeling very upper class. For example, my parents sold their 3 bed/ 3 bath 1800 sq ft home in a south Florida suburb for 370k back in November 2017. With 20% (74k) down at a 3% interest rate, the mortgage, taxes, insurance, and HOA totaled about $1800. Fast forward to today, the zestimate on that same house is now 625k. Now with 20% (125k) down at 6.6% interest, the same payment is over $4k per month. That's a 122% increase in monthly housing expenses in 6.5 years. That's not the only expense that's gone up astronomically either. Home/ auto insurance, dining at restaurants, healthcare, new car prices, gas, and basically everything else you buy is up a minimum of 50% in the last 5 years.

Looking at the atc pay tables from 2014 compared to 2024. The bottom of the level 12 cpc band with no locality in 2014 was 105k. The base today is 128k. That's a 22% increase in 10 years. Now we just need the other 50-100% and we can afford to buy a house.

 

[PooseMaGoose]

Anybody at DCA care to share your opinion on agency leadership's knee-jerk reaction to "fix" DCA in response to this most recent event involving a RWY01 departure and RWY33 arrival?

...the genius fix.... suspend all RWY04 operations until further notice.

 

[KP-ATC]

Anybody at DCA care to share your opinion on agency leadership's knee-jerk reaction to "fix" DCA in response to this most recent event involving a RWY01 departure and RWY33 arrival?

...the genius fix.... suspend all RWY04 operations until further notice.

That's quicker and easier than un-fucking the lack of skill there.

 

[AB19]

That's like saying pilots, doctors, and lawyers, and software engineers are overpaid because they'd never make that much if they switched careers. It takes years of specialized training and refining our craft to be good enough to certify at a high level facility, just like it takes those other professions many years to reach the pinnacle of their careers. Not everyone can do this job, especially at a high level. I happen to think it's bullshit that the base pay for a new cpc at a place like A80 is less than half what a new 737 captain makes on the delta flight they're sequencing in to ATL. This job has not kept up.

Now maybe if you're getting 30% locality, 8% CIP, and the housing market in your area is somewhat reasonable, you might feel solidly middle class. But no one in this job is upper class from their salaries alone. I bet the people in MIA aren't feeling very upper class. For example, my parents sold their 3 bed/ 3 bath 1800 sq ft home in a south Florida suburb for 370k back in November 2017. With 20% (74k) down at a 3% interest rate, the mortgage, taxes, insurance, and HOA totaled about $1800. Fast forward to today, the zestimate on that same house is now 625k. Now with 20% (125k) down at 6.6% interest, the same payment is over $4k per month. That's a 122% increase in monthly housing expenses in 6.5 years. That's not the only expense that's gone up astronomically either. Home/ auto insurance, dining at restaurants, healthcare, new car prices, gas, and basically everything else you buy is up a minimum of 50% in the last 5 years.

Looking at the atc pay tables from 2014 compared to 2024. The bottom of the level 12 cpc band with no locality in 2014 was 105k. The base today is 128k. That's a 22% increase in 10 years. Now we just need the other 50-100% and we can afford to buy a house.

Again, never said we are overpaid. Doctors and pilots in this country also have artificially inflated time and expense to do the job compared to their European counterparts. Inflation affects everyone, and the person in Miami making 120k is going to be affected a lot less than the person making 90k. Home pricing in this country hasn't kept up with wages in decades, everyone is affected by it.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Anybody at DCA care to share your opinion on agency leadership's knee-jerk reaction to "fix" DCA in response to this most recent event involving a RWY01 departure and RWY33 arrival?

...the genius fix.... suspend all RWY04 operations until further notice.

Maybe it's a typo? 🤣

 

[32andBelow]

Has mega deals. Surprised when they do something 😮

 

[CF]

The agencies appetite for tolerating these kinds of issues is getting low. Expect draconian responses to these kinds of deals going forward. They don’t care if the operation is hamstrung.

 

[PooseMaGoose]

Has mega deals. Surprised when they do something 😮

The agencies appetite for tolerating these kinds of issues is getting low. Expect draconian responses to these kinds of deals going forward. They don’t care if the operation is hamstrung.

You think they would at a minimum do something that's not only relevant to the event that occurred.... but something that wouldn't hurt the operation further.

*** "Hey! I've got an idea... let's close RWY 04 further stressing the remaining actives which are already saturated with traffic flow... Love it when people are forced to do more with less!"

-FAA, 2024

 

[32andBelow]

You think they would at a minimum do something that's not only relevant to the event that occurred.... but something that wouldn't hurt the operation further.

*** "Hey! I've got an idea... let's close RWY 04 further stressing the remaining actives which are already saturated with traffic flow... Love it when people are forced to do more with less!"

-FAA, 2024

They’re worried about hundreds of people dying not delays.

 

[PooseMaGoose]

They’re worried about hundreds of people dying not delays.

No..really?! Thanks I had that backward. Thank god you’re here to clarify that.

Since you’re so on the ball, mind telling us how closing RWY 04 has anything to do with the incident that this entire thread is based on?

 

[32andBelow]

No..really?! Thanks I had that backward. Thank god you’re here to clarify that.

Since you’re so on the ball, mind telling us how closing RWY 04 has anything to do with the incident that this entire thread is based on?

I’m not saying any of that. They just have to do something after this happens over and over

 

[PooseMaGoose]

I’m not saying any of that. They just have to do something after this happens over and over

Well what they did just made things worse.

 

[SquawkHijack]

The agencies appetite for tolerating these kinds of issues is getting low. Expect draconian responses to these kinds of deals going forward. They don’t care if the operation is hamstrung.

The agency can deal with it. That’s what you get when you mismanage the fuck out of a government agency responsible for almost all airborne operations over the U.S. and its territories. Some of that working closely with the DoD. The upper echelon just wants to coast and not do anything but make the rest of our jobs worse because they don’t want to deal with the consequences of their laissez fair approach to managing/leading.