Enroute to Terminal Transfer Class Questions

[refkid]

Hi. Had a few questions regarding non-new hires transferring from the center to the terminal environment.

1) I’ve heard from various people that if you’re a transfer, OKC can’t be job jeopardy again and is considered pass/pass if you previously passed Initial Enroute. But can’t seem to find where that’s officially written anywhere. Can anyone confirm that this is correct?

2) Do you qualify for housing and food per diem just like new hires? Do you set everything up on your own or does your facility handle it? Do you get duty-time travel days to get to Oklahoma?

3) Do center transfers go for both Initial Tower and RTF? Do they try and knock out both classes at once, or do you have to go back after checking out in the tower? Are there classes designated specifically for center transfers, or will you just be lumped in with new hire classes?

Thanks

 

[FightingIrish2012]

1) It’s not pass-fail, this was arbitrated over ten years ago and is the law of the land now.

2) You get the same per-diem.

3). Depends if you are a CPCIT or washout. If you washed out you will go back to OKC for RTF after certifying in tower. If your a CPC transfer you won’t do RTF

 

[refkid]

1) It’s not pass-fail, this was arbitrated over ten years ago and is the law of the land now.

2) You get the same per-diem.

3). Depends if you are a CPCIT or washout. If you washed out you will go back to OKC for RTF after certifying in tower. If your a CPC transfer you won’t do RTF

Thanks for the info. Was wondering on the pass/pass vs. pass/fail status because I heard you’re still graded the same as new hires. Seems odd someone could hypothetically get a 0% grade and then just go back to your facility and start training.

 

[MJ]

Thanks for the info. Was wondering on the pass/pass vs. pass/fail status because I heard you’re still graded the same as new hires. Seems odd someone could hypothetically get a 0% grade and then just go back to your facility and start training.

it's still a stage of training. the ATM could terminate training.

 

[refkid]

it's still a stage of training. the ATM could terminate training.

Even if you’ve already completed that stage previously for a different track?

 

[MJ]

training can be terminated at any point. cpc-its get washed too.

 

[refkid]

training can be terminated at any point. cpc-its get washed too.

So there’s no official guidance or procedures in place for transfers going to OKC? It’s all arbitrarily whatever the ATM feels like? With that logic, an ATM could wash someone who goes to OKC and gets 100 and then start training someone who gets a 0. There has to be some type of procedure.

 

[32andBelow]

So there’s no official guidance or procedures in place for transfers going to OKC? It’s all arbitrarily whatever the ATM feels like? With that logic, an ATM could wash someone who goes to OKC and gets 100 and then start training someone who gets a 0. There has to be some type of procedure.

The TRB would say the atm is a moron

 

[refkid]

The TRB would say the atm is a moron

I think MJ may have misunderstood my original question. There’s no minimum grade you’re required to get in OKC as a current employee, right? I’m not worried about some minuscule chance of a TRB, but I know from the Enroute side how fucked up OKC can be and know it’s not always easy to get outta there with a 70%.

 

[32andBelow]

I think MJ may have misunderstood my original question. There’s no minimum grade you’re required to get in OKC as a current employee, right? I’m not worried about some minuscule chance of a TRB, but I know from the Enroute side how fucked up OKC can be and know it’s not always easy to get outta there with a 70%.

It’s easy to get out of there with a 70

 

[refkid]

It’s easy to get out of there with a 70

But you’re not required to get it the second time, right?

 

[FightingIrish2012]

But you’re not required to get it the second time, right?

Correct, this was a big question years ago but Brian Zillions was the NATCA lead on the argument, and it went all the way to an arbitrator. It was ruled the Agency can not consider Tower OKC for someone who passed Enroute as pass/fail. They usually put you in a class with other center training failures or CPC transfers so you don’t mix with new hires. The arbitration ruling was on the NATCA page but I think they scrubbed all the old history of arbitration rulings after collaboration.

 

[AB19]

If you're this worried about getting a 70 I'm sure your tower is gonna love you

 

[abc1234]

The tower class is pass/pass, but they still treat you like new hires in terms of eval and grading criteria. However all your new ATM sees is "satisfactory" if you scored 90 or above, or "needs improvement" if you scored 70-90, or "unsatisfactory" below 70. That's all they see but they aren't gonna terminate your training bc of that unless you're an asshole

So there’s no official guidance or procedures in place for transfers going to OKC? It’s all arbitrarily whatever the ATM feels like? With that logic, an ATM could wash someone who goes to OKC and gets 100 and then start training someone who gets a 0. There has to be some type of procedure.

Bro you're not even required to go to the tower class if you're a CPC transfer. It's all discretion of the ATM.

 

[refkid]

If you're this worried about getting a 70 I'm sure your tower is gonna love you

Never said I was worried, it’d just be nice to know if it’s a requirement or not.

The tower class is pass/pass, but they still treat you like new hires in terms of eval and grading criteria. However all your new ATM sees is "satisfactory" if you scored 90 or above, or "needs improvement" if you scored 70-90, or "unsatisfactory" below 70. That's all they see but they aren't gonna terminate your training bc of that unless you're an asshole

Thank you for the info, that’s what I was looking for.