Eugene Freedman, World Class Dope

FightingIrish2012 said:
Needle dicked attorney for NATCA and the NATCA President.

It was 80% cucks who went to ATX, almost all the rest were new kids at their first NATCA event who don’t know any better yet how much they are getting fucked.
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i'd have booed his ass off and started throwing chairs like paulie walnuts at the psychic episode

 
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ATX schedule was being planned while Santa was still president. Does anyone know if this class was already on the schedule prior to Nick winning?
 

End of 2024 Salary Survey - Airline Pilot Central Forums

Major - End of 2024 Salary Survey - Go ahead, brag away! [MOD INPUT] Let's keep this thread factual and informative, no extraneous off-topic commentary please.
www.airlinepilotforums.com
The legacy airline pilots Eugene compared us to are routinely making $250k+ per year as first officers. Captains who hustle and play the premium games are making $500k+. Our pay has kept pace with them though don’t worry!
 
We are at or below the regional airline wage scale. Level 4-7 controllers are making less that 1st year FO’s at Skywest, Endeavor, Envoy, ect…. Level 12 controllers making less than regional captains. Our TSP plus FERS is probably better until you get to the majors comparison of a 16% 401k match at the majors. I would much rather have the money in my own account than a pension. Look at how many controllers would leave their job if they didn’t have to walk away from an age 50 pension. NATCA needs to negotiate a payout for our pension. Too many burnt out controllers that feel stuck. You are not doing this job for pay and benefits anymore. We do it for the 30 consecutive hours a week outside the facility and the appreciation of our management who cares so much about our well being.
 
AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise said:

End of 2024 Salary Survey - Airline Pilot Central Forums

Major - End of 2024 Salary Survey - Go ahead, brag away! [MOD INPUT] Let's keep this thread factual and informative, no extraneous off-topic commentary please.
www.airlinepilotforums.com
The legacy airline pilots Eugene compared us to are routinely making $250k+ per year as first officers. Captains who hustle and play the premium games are making $500k+. Our pay has kept pace with them though don’t worry!
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Wow. That thread is enough to make me feel like it's probably time to be ceremonially pushed off a cliff by my closest family member in a loving and respectful manner. Even the folks on here slaving away to hit 330k, we'll, it's a shadow of the actual achievement of others in the aviation industry.

I hate to be a doomer, but man, I could be accomplishing more. I wonder if staying in this career field is failing my family because I'm too complacent to seek greater things.
 
Somenewguy said:
Negotiating a buyout of our pension is the absolute worst move. It's literally the most valuable thing about the career field, and you want to sell it out.
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The pension is not as great as you think it is, for how much we and the gov put into it each paycheck the end result is actually quite terrible. The best part of it is how "safe" it seems, but that's not even fully true if you look at how easily the gov can just decide to take it away. It's a big reason those of us in for a decade or more are stuck however and how we lose negotiation power when they know we are stuck.

If you took what we and the gov pay into the pension each paycheck and invested it in something even pretty safe the end result would give you more money each year in retirement AND the leftovers when you pass wouldn't get taken by the gov, it would pass onto your estate. The pension is OK, but it's not what you think it is.
 
Careful peeps, that airline pilot central survey will have you BIG mad. A southwest captain made over a million this year and averaged like 90 hours a month. Airline pilots have insane earning potential right now.
 
Ok, let's do some easy math. You make 100,000. You pay 5000/year towards FERS if you're a new hire. You work 20 years.

You've paid 100,000 dollars.

Your first ten years of retirement you are paid over 350,000 and you are owed that every 10 years until you die. It is actually a good return on investment.

If you think the government is going to cut a deal to spend MORE money, then I have a bridge to sell you. Whatever negotiation happens will be for them to spend less.
 
Somenewguy said:
Ok, let's do some easy math. You make 100,000. You pay 5000/year towards FERS if you're a new hire. You work 20 years.

You've paid 100,000 dollars.

Your first ten years of retirement you are paid over 350,000 and you are owed that every 10 years until you die. It is actually a good return on investment.

If you think the government is going to cut a deal to spend MORE money, then I have a bridge to sell you. Whatever negotiation happens will be for them to spend less.
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I think you missed to point bro. Yeah, you only paid 5k/yr but the government paid an extra 45k/yr into FERS on your behalf. If that 50k/yr was directed straight into your tsp instead, you'd be far better off even with only moderate growth with compounded returns in addition to the what they already contribute to tsp.
 
Acquired Taste said:
I think you missed to point bro. Yeah, you only paid 5k/yr but the government paid an extra 45k/yr into FERS on your behalf. If that 50k/yr was directed straight into your tsp instead, you'd be far better off even with only moderate growth with compounded returns in addition to the what they already contribute to tsp.
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Where is the source for the government paying 45% of your salary into FERS every year? They don't.

Next point, they will not be agreeing to a change that doesn't benefit the agency. That means they will want to spend less money. You have a practically foolproof, recessionproof, marketproof way to ensure you have a decent standard of living without work for the rest of your entire life and you want to blow it up. The TSP loses 20% some years, nobody wants to see that in their retirement income. It has a lower yield because it's a safer investment.
 
Somenewguy said:
Where is the source for the government paying 45% of your salary into FERS every year? They don't.

Next point, they will not be agreeing to a change that doesn't benefit the agency. That means they will want to spend less money. You have a practically foolproof, recessionproof, marketproof way to ensure you have a decent standard of living without work for the rest of your entire life and you want to blow it up. The TSP loses 20% some years, nobody wants to see that in their retirement income. It has a lower yield because it's a safer investment.
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I looked at my LES. I make 120k base. As of 12/14, I've paid 5.8k into fers ytd. I then scrolled down to the benefits paid by the government section. They have paid over 44k into fers ytd. That is my source.
 
Ok, I brought up a very specific hypothetical, you used math from a completely different scenario, cool.

Makes it really easy to have a reasonable discussion when you bring up numbers based on an argument you were having with yourself in your own head.
 
For the pension does blow for lower levels, not to be a dick or anything but after retiring out of a 12 the pension will fluff retirement to an easy six figures for those of us lucky enough to be in that situation.
 
Somenewguy said:
Negotiating a buyout of our pension is the absolute worst move. It's literally the most valuable thing about the career field, and you want to sell it out.
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Somenewguy said:
Ok, let's do some easy math. You make 100,000. You pay 5000/year towards FERS if you're a new hire. You work 20 years.

You've paid 100,000 dollars.

Your first ten years of retirement you are paid over 350,000 and you are owed that every 10 years until you die. It is actually a good return on investment.

If you think the government is going to cut a deal to spend MORE money, then I have a bridge to sell you. Whatever negotiation happens will be for them to spend less.
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You’re definitely a new guy.
You can put in 23k into tsp this year. Employer on your behalf can put in 69k this year. With my 4.9% fers and the government contribution, I’m sitting at 75k. Imagine putting 90k into your tsp every year. That’s gonna be about 2 mil over 20 years not even counting market growth. At about 40% pension I’ll have maybe 100k pension. That’s nothing compared to what you can have in your tsp. And I don’t have to choose if I want survivor benefits. I don’t lose the money when I pass but my wife and kids get to have it. I would negotiate away the pension in a heartbeat for the FAA to contribute the max into tsp. No match necessary just like the airlines.
 
Your own FERS contributions and agency contributions are about 40% total for simplicity sake. If you make 100k a year that's 40k/year. Increasing with inflation and a 6% APY you're looking at around 2m at retirement. This leaves you with about 8000/month in retirement if you expect to live to 85.


If you're in the agency for 20 years with 5% pay raises (same expected wage increase as above), your high 3 will average around 255k. Multiply this by .37 for FERS calculation. This leaves you with 8100 dollars per month. Guaranteed. Forever.

the inquirer said:
You’re definitely a new guy.
You can put in 23k into tsp this year. Employer on your behalf can put in 69k this year. With my 4.9% fers and the government contribution, I’m sitting at 75k. Imagine putting 90k into your tsp every year. That’s gonna be about 2 mil over 20 years not even counting market growth. At about 40% pension I’ll have maybe 100k pension. That’s nothing compared to what you can have in your tsp. And I don’t have to choose if I want survivor benefits. I don’t lose the money when I pass but my wife and kids get to have it. I would negotiate away the pension in a heartbeat for the FAA to contribute the max into tsp. No match necessary just like the airlines.
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I agree with you. If the agency was willing to pay the same or more and just put it in a different place I would be open to that.

I just don't think what your talking about is ever going to be offered. We are in a place where the government is looking to cut costs and cut employee benefits.
 
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