Hardship Q's as AG

Messages
4
I've been doing some research on and off this forum. But I'd like to try and get information here anonymously before going to someone at my facility.

Quick rundown: I'm an AG at a center. I have been in the FAA for more than a year. I am a BUE. I recently learned that one of my elderly parents has been advised by their doctor to receive additional stents in their heart. Secondly, they are showing signs of Parkinson's (have not yet gone to a doctor for this but its happening shortly). Apparently the condition has worsened in the last year or two. I can provide more details, but from my novice assessment, I believe I qualify for a hardship. If for some reason I can't, I know that sometime soon I will have to separate from the agency to care for my parent. I have to stress explicitly here that I do NOT want to do that if it can be helped. Getting this job has been a blessing. But I'm not exaggerating when I say there is no one else who can care for my parent.

I have several questions and appreciate anyone who can answer.

- I know there are people in my facility/region that ideally would help me prepare hardship paperwork. But because this center is low staffed, I'm sure it's going to be like pulling teeth because I am an AG. What are some ways to help navigate this type of thing? I'm still new enough to not truly understand the ins and outs of the Union and FAA.
- I graduated En Route and the only facilities near my parent are towers/tracon. I have no certs whatsoever. Does this mean I have to go back to the Academy? Does having no certs affect this type of hardship in some way?
- I know I will not be paid to move, but I still have plenty of time left before my lease is up here. If I do get approved for the hardship, can I ask for a date range on when to actually transfer? Breaking my lease would be thousands of dollars I'd have to put on a credit card or something.
- Anyone with experience of this particular hardship type (care of a parent), please chime in. However, most of my uneasiness has to do with my absolute uselessness to the agency at this time. If anyone was an AG that hardshipped, I'd like to hear your experience as well.

Thanks in advance.
 

TaylorChoate

Member
Messages
37
I've been doing some research on and off this forum. But I'd like to try and get information here anonymously before going to someone at my facility.

Quick rundown: I'm an AG at a center. I have been in the FAA for more than a year. I am a BUE. I recently learned that one of my elderly parents has been advised by their doctor to receive additional stents in their heart. Secondly, they are showing signs of Parkinson's (have not yet gone to a doctor for this but its happening shortly). Apparently the condition has worsened in the last year or two. I can provide more details, but from my novice assessment, I believe I qualify for a hardship. If for some reason I can't, I know that sometime soon I will have to separate from the agency to care for my parent. I have to stress explicitly here that I do NOT want to do that if it can be helped. Getting this job has been a blessing. But I'm not exaggerating when I say there is no one else who can care for my parent.

I have several questions and appreciate anyone who can answer.

- I know there are people in my facility/region that ideally would help me prepare hardship paperwork. But because this center is low staffed, I'm sure it's going to be like pulling teeth because I am an AG. What are some ways to help navigate this type of thing? I'm still new enough to not truly understand the ins and outs of the Union and FAA.
- I graduated En Route and the only facilities near my parent are towers/tracon. I have no certs whatsoever. Does this mean I have to go back to the Academy? Does having no certs affect this type of hardship in some way?
- I know I will not be paid to move, but I still have plenty of time left before my lease is up here. If I do get approved for the hardship, can I ask for a date range on when to actually transfer? Breaking my lease would be thousands of dollars I'd have to put on a credit card or something.
- Anyone with experience of this particular hardship type (care of a parent), please chime in. However, most of my uneasiness has to do with my absolute uselessness to the agency at this time. If anyone was an AG that hardshipped, I'd like to hear your experience as well.

Thanks in advance.
I don’t have any knowledge for you, but best of luck for you man that’s tough.
 

DADDYSbabyBIRD

Active Member
Messages
73
I've been doing some research on and off this forum. But I'd like to try and get information here anonymously before going to someone at my facility.

Quick rundown: I'm an AG at a center. I have been in the FAA for more than a year. I am a BUE. I recently learned that one of my elderly parents has been advised by their doctor to receive additional stents in their heart. Secondly, they are showing signs of Parkinson's (have not yet gone to a doctor for this but its happening shortly). Apparently the condition has worsened in the last year or two. I can provide more details, but from my novice assessment, I believe I qualify for a hardship. If for some reason I can't, I know that sometime soon I will have to separate from the agency to care for my parent. I have to stress explicitly here that I do NOT want to do that if it can be helped. Getting this job has been a blessing. But I'm not exaggerating when I say there is no one else who can care for my parent.

I have several questions and appreciate anyone who can answer.

- I know there are people in my facility/region that ideally would help me prepare hardship paperwork. But because this center is low staffed, I'm sure it's going to be like pulling teeth because I am an AG. What are some ways to help navigate this type of thing? I'm still new enough to not truly understand the ins and outs of the Union and FAA.
- I graduated En Route and the only facilities near my parent are towers/tracon. I have no certs whatsoever. Does this mean I have to go back to the Academy? Does having no certs affect this type of hardship in some way?
- I know I will not be paid to move, but I still have plenty of time left before my lease is up here. If I do get approved for the hardship, can I ask for a date range on when to actually transfer? Breaking my lease would be thousands of dollars I'd have to put on a credit card or something.
- Anyone with experience of this particular hardship type (care of a parent), please chime in. However, most of my uneasiness has to do with my absolute uselessness to the agency at this time. If anyone was an AG that hardshipped, I'd like to hear your experience as well.

Thanks in advance.
How hardships are setup per the contract, your level of certification and your facilities staffing "should" have no impact on decisions. If you believe your hardship fits within how the Slate book says then file it and see what happens. However, even with a bona-fide hardship it can still possibly be denied. How you up the odds that doesn't happen is make sure to get as much evidence beforehand. You need to have your ducks in a row, try to make it as undeniable as ever. Talk to your NATCA people at your facility that can help you.
 

kombucha23

Trusted Contributor
Messages
221
There’s a natca rep for your region as well who you can get in touch with (check your emails from your regional leadership or on NATCA’s site) and they can walk you through some of the needed stuff.

Documentation from your parent’s doctor that your parent needs the care, a statement from yourself of why you feel it qualifies (such as you’re their only child, you/they feasibly can’t afford home care if not you taking care of them), a list of facilities you’d like to be eligible to be considered for, you’ll need some forms like the 3330-43-1 I believe, a resume, and it would also help to have a lawyer draft a letter that states similarly to what the doctor says and that you’re the only possible primary caregiver available (I went through a hardship thing and this was some of the advice I was given).

Your regional hardship contact will have clear guidance for you moving forward. These are just a few things I was prepping to submit to the agency but my relative passed away before I could even get going on my hardship.

Good luck and sorry you’re going through this.
 

Horno

Active Member
Messages
85
I was an AG at a level 12 facility who had to file a hardship (different circumstances than yours) but feel free to DM me for additional info.

- I know there are people in my facility/region that ideally would help me prepare hardship paperwork. But because this center is low staffed, I'm sure it's going to be like pulling teeth because I am an AG. What are some ways to help navigate this type of thing? I'm still new enough to not truly understand the ins and outs of the Union and FAA.

- I graduated En Route and the only facilities near my parent are towers/tracon. I have no certs whatsoever. Does this mean I have to go back to the Academy? Does having no certs affect this type of hardship in some way?
If you went to an up/down you probably will have to go back to the academy for tower and RTF for radar. There are some towers (including up/downs) that do not require you to go to tower school in OKC and they do everything in house. It will be up to the discretion of the ATM ultimately.


- I know I will not be paid to move, but I still have plenty of time left before my lease is up here. If I do get approved for the hardship, can I ask for a date range on when to actually transfer? Breaking my lease would be thousands of dollars I'd have to put on a credit card or something.

Yes. The ATMs should be able to collobrate with each other and typically they will work with you especially since you’re AG and don’t count for anything.

- Anyone with experience of this particular hardship type (care of a parent), please chime in. However, most of my uneasiness has to do with my absolute uselessness to the agency at this time. If anyone was an AG that hardshipped, I'd like to hear your experience as well.

You can DM me if you want and I’ll share my experience.
 

7four11

Member
Messages
31
I would leave out anything about your lease to those you talk to involved with helping prepare your paperwork. You have stated on here that you’d like to push back a release date because you’d have to put thousands of dollars on a credit card, or something. First thing that pops into my mind “this hardship isn’t urgent if you want to negotiate a later release date, even before you’ve filed paperwork, to accommodate your lease.”

Talk with your leasing company if/when your hardship gets approved. They may be able to work with you.

Is it possible to move in with your parents, rent free, for the duration of your lease? Still be the same out of pocket you’re paying now.
 

DADDYSbabyBIRD

Active Member
Messages
73
If approved, hardship releases should be immediately. If a person requests to push it back, it should be subsequently denied.

Sorry not sorry.
I get what your saying, and trust me I have seen my fair share of BS hardships. However, sometimes the hardship is on the horizon. You're suggesting that they must wait until the hardship is an immediate emergency issue until being able to apply? It takes times to sell houses, move, ect. Sometimes a sudden release would put even a more stressful environment onto the situation. I do agree with the other person above though, the losing money with lease thing would seem kind of weak. Like "I need to move for this hardship, but on my own time and when it's best for me", instead of. "I need to move for this hardship as soon as I can, however it might take a month or two to get my ducks in a row here though so can we plan for it in two months, I have someone to cover my absence until then who can take care of my mother"
 
Messages
4
Thanks for all the replies. The lease is not a primary concern, but one I felt worth asking about here.

I would leave out anything about your lease to those you talk to involved with helping prepare your paperwork. You have stated on here that you’d like to push back a release date because you’d have to put thousands of dollars on a credit card, or something. First thing that pops into my mind “this hardship isn’t urgent if you want to negotiate a later release date, even before you’ve filed paperwork, to accommodate your lease.”

Talk with your leasing company if/when your hardship gets approved. They may be able to work with you.

Is it possible to move in with your parents, rent free, for the duration of your lease? Still be the same out of pocket you’re paying now.

FWIW, what you lay out is exactly what I'm planning on doing. I would only have brought it up if I got positive feedback about it here. Thanks for being candid.
 

Ad1234

Trusted Contributor
Messages
409
I get what your saying, and trust me I have seen my fair share of BS hardships. However, sometimes the hardship is on the horizon. You're suggesting that they must wait until the hardship is an immediate emergency issue until being able to apply? It takes times to sell houses, move, ect. Sometimes a sudden release would put even a more stressful environment onto the situation. I do agree with the other person above though, the losing money with lease thing would seem kind of weak. Like "I need to move for this hardship, but on my own time and when it's best for me", instead of. "I need to move for this hardship as soon as I can, however it might take a month or two to get my ducks in a row here though so can we plan for it in two months, I have someone to cover my absence until then who can take care of my mother"
I understand what you are saying. But there are things already in place that allow for that overlap. In particular for an academy grad, annual leave will almost surely be approved, sick leave, and fmla for up to 480 hours within the first 12 months of first use for care of a family member in particular you can use LWOP. So right there he’s probably got 16 weeks if he hasnt used much leave. Yes it sucks, but expecting someone to acknowledge your hardship and then you want it exactly the way you want shows it’s not much of a hardship, just a convenience.
 

DADDYSbabyBIRD

Active Member
Messages
73
I understand what you are saying. But there are things already in place that allow for that overlap. In particular for an academy grad, annual leave will almost surely be approved, sick leave, and fmla for up to 480 hours within the first 12 months of first use for care of a family member in particular you can use LWOP. So right there he’s probably got 16 weeks if he hasnt used much leave. Yes it sucks, but expecting someone to acknowledge your hardship and then you want it exactly the way you want shows it’s not much of a hardship, just a convenience.

So say someone is at a facility in the middle or nowhere (GCN) kid gets brain cancer, has to start surgeries and treatment soon and the nearest hospital that can deal with this is in Phoenix. Treatment starts in three months, family has to sell and buy new place or find rental. According to you they must either 1. put in hardship then transfer facilities right away after approval and be stuck paying a mortage while house sells and a rental in new place until then so it looks like a legit hardship to other people. Or, 2. Wait to file hardship, risking a delayed timeline for approval or having it possibly getting denied the first time for lack of evidence (happens) and then being stuck in a terrible situation far away from where kid needs to be almost every day.... but it's ok, they have leave.
 

Ad1234

Trusted Contributor
Messages
409
So say someone is at a facility in the middle or nowhere (GCN) kid gets brain cancer, has to start surgeries and treatment soon and the nearest hospital that can deal with this is in Phoenix. Treatment starts in three months, family has to sell and buy new place or find rental. According to you they must either 1. put in hardship then transfer facilities right away after approval and be stuck paying a mortage while house sells and a rental in new place until then so it looks like a legit hardship to other people. Or, 2. Wait to file hardship, risking a delayed timeline for approval or having it possibly getting denied the first time for lack of evidence (happens) and then being stuck in a terrible situation far away from where kid needs to be almost every day.... but it's ok, they have leave.
1. That’s not the situation described above.
2. In the one you described, which is a very warranted hardship (I will mention, of course it’s Phoenix, never Minneapolis) the specific request for a date would be made at the time of submission rather than after approval and of course that wouldn’t be a problem. But either way that person is taking some form of leave to get settled in before they start work and their child starts chemo, and they will most likely have fmla paperwork in place to take care of their sick child. No one in this situation is hiding their circumstance either and everyone would bend over backward for them.
 
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DADDYSbabyBIRD

Active Member
Messages
73
1. That’s not the situation described above.
2. In the one you described, which is a very warranted hardship (I will mention, of course it’s Phoenix, never Minneapolis) the specific request for a date would be made at the time of submission rather than after approval and of course that wouldn’t be a problem. But either way that person is taking some form of leave to get settled in before they start work and their child starts chemo, and they will most likely have fmla paperwork in place to take care of their sick child. No one in this situation is hiding their circumstance either and everyone would bend over backward for them.
Fair enough, and yes I used Phoenix as an example for a reason. PHX and P50 seem to be filled with hardships at a higher rate than one would think to be normal or warranted compared to the rest of the NAS or surrounding facilities.
 

PointSixty5stalker

Trusted Contributor
Messages
71
A date range? You don’t want to break your lease? Sounds like another hardship scam. There are hundreds of people that got dropped into facilities far from home. It’s sucks. But unfortunately you need to pray to the NCEPT gods like the rest of us. You state both parents are unwell but unfortunately the FAA sees that as one another is a viable care taker. You have a better chance of hardship with a allergy diagnosis. One that I have heard recently was someone was giving themselves bloody noses on the way into control room and bleeding all over the keyboard and blamed it on allergies. Girl in his area kept fainting at sight of blood. He was out the door in 10 days. Not sure how but if you go this route I would advise not to snort heroin to cause said bloody nose. Hope this helps.
 

Bandit117

Trusted Contributor
Messages
281
A date range? You don’t want to break your lease? Sounds like another hardship scam. There are hundreds of people that got dropped into facilities far from home. It’s sucks. But unfortunately you need to pray to the NCEPT gods like the rest of us. You state both parents are unwell but unfortunately the FAA sees that as one another is a viable care taker. You have a better chance of hardship with a allergy diagnosis. One that I have heard recently was someone was giving themselves bloody noses on the way into control room and bleeding all over the keyboard and blamed it on allergies. Girl in his area kept fainting at sight of blood. He was out the door in 10 days. Not sure how but if you go this route I would advise not to snort heroin to cause said bloody nose. Hope this helps.
I don’t know about you, but when I was on AG pay I couldn’t afford to break my lease. It was something like 2 or 3 months of rent.
 
Messages
4
A date range? You don’t want to break your lease? Sounds like another hardship scam. There are hundreds of people that got dropped into facilities far from home. It’s sucks. But unfortunately you need to pray to the NCEPT gods like the rest of us. You state both parents are unwell but unfortunately the FAA sees that as one another is a viable care taker. You have a better chance of hardship with a allergy diagnosis. One that I have heard recently was someone was giving themselves bloody noses on the way into control room and bleeding all over the keyboard and blamed it on allergies. Girl in his area kept fainting at sight of blood. He was out the door in 10 days. Not sure how but if you go this route I would advise not to snort heroin to cause said bloody nose. Hope this helps.
Perhaps you misread my post. This is all about one parent. My other parent is not in the picture. I also never said I dont want to break my lease. If it was possible I wanted to avoid thousands of dollars of debt that would otherwise go toward me taking care of my parent who is on fixed income.

I know scammy or allergy type hardships may have jaded many here. But I'm simply asking questions, and trying to present the facts without going into needless detail, which will always end up sounding like me playing the worlds smallest violin instead of just illustrating my situation.
 

abc1234

Member
Messages
30
Perhaps you misread my post. This is all about one parent. My other parent is not in the picture. I also never said I dont want to break my lease. If it was possible I wanted to avoid thousands of dollars of debt that would otherwise go toward me taking care of my parent who is on fixed income.

I know scammy or allergy type hardships may have jaded many here. But I'm simply asking questions, and trying to present the facts without going into needless detail, which will always end up sounding like me playing the worlds smallest violin instead of just illustrating my situation.
I'd suggest finding a sublet or even Airbnb the place if you're allowed. You might even make more money than your rent.
 

YeeeeYeeee

Member
Messages
26
If approved, hardship releases should be immediately. If a person requests to push it back, it should subsequently be denied.

Sorry not sorry.
Yeah, why don’t we put hardships into more of a hardship by forcing them to take it whenever it gets approved. Sounds like a lot of help to the agency.
The way the agency treats these things is such bs, you never know if it’ll be approved or denied. When they come to you and finally tell you it’s approved you need more than 2 weeks to get shit squared away.
 
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