In the interest of National Security

[SquawkHijack]

There’s no evidence that most of the membership wanted that. There’s only evidence that most of the anonymous internet trolls wanted that. Hopefully we’ll get a ratification amendment in May so we can know who wants what.

You’re delusional, Nick and Rich clearly campaigned stating those things were top issues because they were definitely a majority. And why do you think so many were pissed in the national town hall after the contract was extended?? Take your face out of the NATCA kool-aid for a minute and reflect back on all that.

 

[blarg]

Hand wringing like that doesn't get us anywhere.

lol, so dumb.
"I'm going to try to avoid getting punched in the face by walking in to a face-punching machine!!"
Arguing that you should try to negotiate with people who will do zero good-faith negotiating or respect any arbitration clauses is mind-numbingly ignorant.

 

[CoffeeIV]

lol, so dumb.
"I'm going to try to avoid getting punched in the face by walking in to a face-punching machine!!"
Arguing that you should try to negotiate with people who will do zero good-faith negotiating or respect any arbitration clauses is mind-numbingly ignorant.

These people are simply dumb. Most of them are not worth replying to because they lack any ability to think outside their own desires/agenda.

 

[Deuce]

We got the legislative fix for that a decade ago.

Hand wringing like that doesn't get us anywhere.

He literally just signed an EO saying the department of transportation can ignore grievances and arbitration lol

 

[Shikaka]

Negotiation or not, the union should be doing more for the public facing aspect.

 

[CreepyPineapple]

These people are simply dumb. Most of them are not worth replying to because they lack any ability to think outside their own desires/agenda.

It’s funny you call us dumb and say we can’t think outside our own desires/agenda, but you are literally doing the same thing.

I see the other point of view, I’m just trying to show others the other side and why we feel the way we do.

We had 5 years to prepare for a negotiation in 2026, and for the last 3 years, we knew Trump was a real possibility. The fact that the union did nothing to prepare for a possible negotiation with Trump in that time is a failure of the current and past NEB. Like I said, I hope the extension method works, I want us to succeed. But what happens if JD Vance is the next president? The longer we postpone negotiations, the bigger the ask becomes to get us to catch up.

The attack of cutting federal employees is real, but I don’t think ATC employees that work traffic day in and day out have anything to fear. Now if you’re on details or one of the many committees, I think it’s clear this administration wants to cut that way back if not eliminate completely. But the majority of NATCA employees are plugged in and talking to planes every day.

 

[CoffeeIV]

It’s funny you call us dumb and say we can’t think outside our own desires/agenda, but you are literally doing the same thing.

I see the other point of view, I’m just trying to show others the other side and why we feel the way we do.

We had 5 years to prepare for a negotiation in 2026, and for the last 3 years, we knew Trump was a real possibility. The fact that the union did nothing to prepare for a possible negotiation with Trump in that time is a failure of the current and past NEB. Like I said, I hope the extension method works, I want us to succeed. But what happens if JD Vance is the next president? The longer we postpone negotiations, the bigger the ask becomes to get us to catch up.

The attack of cutting federal employees is real, but I don’t think ATC employees that work traffic day in and day out have anything to fear. Now if you’re on details or one of the many committees, I think it’s clear this administration wants to cut that way back if not eliminate completely. But the majority of NATCA employees are plugged in and talking to planes every day.

The majority of NATCA employees didn't vote for the union president yet a large majority is on here whining about Nick.

I'm fine with the extension. It was the right call. I think most of you are disconnected from reality of what type of pay other jobs get and lack of pay raises. I think most of you have been subsidized by the government through your entire lives with the military, DoD, or FAA and have no concept real life.

But yeah, we should have negotiated with the dude that is cancelling the TSA CBA, other CBAs already signed, and now possibly ours. He would definitely helped us. You're the type of person that thinks Reagan was a good dude. Probably sucked Bushes dick during the white book.

You want a real outside perspective that you can't fathom? Because this career field likes to jack itself off about our thick skin and all that bullshit? Nearly anyone can do this job. The only reason they can't get the 10's of thousands that apply to fill the ranks is due to the school house. You can all circle jerk about washout rates but any level 4 or 5 with a 50-60% success rate is due to the controllers being trash teachers and not because the candidates are bad.

Oh and you will never get that large pay raise. You guys can keep begging but youll never get it. NATCA can disappear a new union can form and it will be the same or worse. Maybe we will privatize and some of you can get the wake up call you deserve.

 

[Move78]

You’re delusional, Nick and Rich clearly campaigned stating those things were top issues because they were definitely a majority. And why do you think so many were pissed in the national town hall after the contract was extended?? Take your face out of the NATCA kool-aid for a minute and reflect back on all that.

Let’s vote on it. The town hall was put on specifically for those that were angry. If you frequent the nameless internet then your misery will just get continuously reinforced. It’s where the complainers go for validation. Thank god they didn’t listen to you guys. But if we vote ourselves into the grave I’m fine with it.

 

[ATCJoe85]

But what happens if JD Vance is the next president? The longer we postpone negotiations, the bigger the ask becomes to get us to catch up.

Exactly. One of my top reasons for leaving: a constant operation based on fear and what could be worse, not based on strength and what could be better.

That's only EVER going to be a downward spiral.

 

[CreepyPineapple]

The majority of NATCA employees didn't vote for the union president yet a large majority is on here whining about Nick.

I'm fine with the extension. It was the right call. I think most of you are disconnected from reality of what type of pay other jobs get and lack of pay raises. I think most of you have been subsidized by the government through your entire lives with the military, DoD, or FAA and have no concept real life.

But yeah, we should have negotiated with the dude that is cancelling the TSA CBA, other CBAs already signed, and now possibly ours. He would definitely helped us. You're the type of person that thinks Reagan was a good dude. Probably sucked Bushes dick during the white book.

You want a real outside perspective that you can't fathom? Because this career field likes to jack itself off about our thick skin and all that bullshit? Nearly anyone can do this job. The only reason they can't get the 10's of thousands that apply to fill the ranks is due to the school house. You can all circle jerk about washout rates but any level 4 or 5 with a 50-60% success rate is due to the controllers being trash teachers and not because the candidates are bad.

Oh and you will never get that large pay raise. You guys can keep begging but youll never get it. NATCA can disappear a new union can form and it will be the same or worse. Maybe we will privatize and some of you can get the wake up call you deserve.

Well first off, I don’t know why you have to be a dick about it. I’m just trying to have a conversation with a peer. Never once have I tried to belittle someone because of their opinion on the matter.

Second, I’m a former nurse so I know damn well what the real world is like. I’ve worked a job where I’m on my feet for 12-16 hours per day where I was lucky to have enough time to sit down for 5 minutes to eat a lunch. And I did all that for way less pay.

I know this job is cushy. I never stray away from taking a shorter break or staying on longer to train. And I never bitch about it. I get paid to work, not sit on break. And I’ll agree with you that people need to wake up because if we ever get a good pay raise, it will come at the expense of shorter breaks and more TOP at the least.

The thing is, I’m willing to sacrifice things for better pay. Does this job pay well? Yes absolutely. But I left the nursing field for this because this job is supposed to put you in the upper middle class and sadly the average salary isn’t that anymore.

I will just have to disagree with you on that anyone can do this job. Are there facilities out there that anyone can probably make it at? Absolutely. But from what I’ve seen at the academy and the facilities I’ve been at, there’s plenty that can’t either.

Also, I’ve never voted for a republican so you can stop that narrative.

 

[SquawkHijack]

You can all circle jerk about washout rates but any level 4 or 5 with a 50-60% success rate is due to the controllers being trash teachers and not because the candidates are bad.

Oh and you will never get that large pay raise. You guys can keep begging but youll never get it. NATCA can disappear a new union can form and it will be the same or worse. Maybe we will privatize and some of you can get the wake up call you deserve.

So you don’t think the academy passing trash candidates is a thing…?

Dude NATCA could disappear tomorrow and we could find a much better union. One that will actually fight for better pay, benefits and working conditions. Not a good ol’ boys cult club that’s based off of cliques and maxing out your PAC contribution. And before you delve into the intricacies of federal labor negotiations, I’m not saying another union that WOULD fight could get us those things with a strong degree of certainty. But we would be leaps and bounds ahead of where we are now if NATCA would actually do their jobs and press the legitimate desires of the workforce. I understand the different political climates that fed employees can face from admin to admin, we can discuss that till we’re blue in the face. But I think we can all agree that a union that actually represents is better than what we have.

Let’s vote on it. The town hall was put on specifically for those that were angry. If you frequent the nameless internet then your misery will just get continuously reinforced. It’s where the complainers go for validation. Thank god they didn’t listen to you guys. But if we vote ourselves into the grave I’m fine with it.

I won’t contest your validity about online shitposters these days, there’s no denying that’s rampant. But the facts of the matter are, people have been pissed off about us not negotiating under Biden, then the run-off that was triggered definitely got national’s attention for starters. Soon after, Rich is voted out. Then the guy that hit the campaign trail saying “we are not extending” and guaranteeing a pay MOU on day one gets elected and we got nothing but the status quo until 2029. Oh and let’s not forget about the class that ol’ Eugene held at ATX where we were gaslighted from thinking we deserve a pay raise because of a PowerPoint illustrating a manufactured minimal pay gap.

All that said, are you trying to say that town hall for those that were fucking pissed was somehow to appease a minority? Even if it was, that will soon change. Because so far all Nick Daniels has done is collect a substantial salary on our fucking dues and dangle that carrot in front of our faces.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

These people are simply dumb. Most of them are not worth replying to because they lack any ability to think outside their own desires/agenda.

The majority of NATCA employees didn't vote for the union president yet a large majority is on here whining about Nick.

I'm fine with the extension. It was the right call. I think most of you are disconnected from reality of what type of pay other jobs get and lack of pay raises. I think most of you have been subsidized by the government through your entire lives with the military, DoD, or FAA and have no concept real life.

But yeah, we should have negotiated with the dude that is cancelling the TSA CBA, other CBAs already signed, and now possibly ours. He would definitely helped us. You're the type of person that thinks Reagan was a good dude. Probably sucked Bushes dick during the white book.

You want a real outside perspective that you can't fathom? Because this career field likes to jack itself off about our thick skin and all that bullshit? Nearly anyone can do this job. The only reason they can't get the 10's of thousands that apply to fill the ranks is due to the school house. You can all circle jerk about washout rates but any level 4 or 5 with a 50-60% success rate is due to the controllers being trash teachers and not because the candidates are bad.

Oh and you will never get that large pay raise. You guys can keep begging but youll never get it. NATCA can disappear a new union can form and it will be the same or worse. Maybe we will privatize and some of you can get the wake up call you deserve.

You’re possibly the most contentious prick on this website. Top 5 without question.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

Let’s vote on it. The town hall was put on specifically for those that were angry. If you frequent the nameless internet then your misery will just get continuously reinforced. It’s where the complainers go for validation. Thank god they didn’t listen to you guys. But if we vote ourselves into the grave I’m fine with it.

There is a proposed amendment in your convention booklet (R25-38 to be specific) which would require the membership to vote to ratify extensions. You should push your local to vote in favor of it at convention. It’s possible the extension would have passed ratification if the membership voted on it, but we’ll never know and that’s a travesty.
You’re also absolutely right about the internet. People who are happy with their salary and work/life balance don’t come here and seek out like minded people to praise their career.

 

[Homsar]

There’s no evidence that most of the membership wanted that. There’s only evidence that most of the anonymous internet trolls wanted that. Hopefully we’ll get a ratification amendment in May so we can know who wants what.

Like others have said, that's a really bad take to have when the Proposed Amendment to the NATCA constitution this year with the most cosponsors is one which will mandate a vote before any extensions. I was very glad to see it, as the topic has come a long way from the one proposed a few years back that only had two cosponsors, and failed. I hope this one will pass.

You're in denial if there's "no evidence" besides "anonymous internet trolls" when everyone who cosponsored that amendment was willing to list their name down.

 

[Move78]

Like others have said, that's a really bad take to have when the Proposed Amendment to the NATCA constitution this year with the most cosponsors is one which will mandate a vote before any extensions. I was very glad to see it, as the topic has come a long way from the one proposed a few years back that only had two cosponsors, and failed. I hope this one will pass.

You're in denial if there's "no evidence" besides "anonymous internet trolls" when everyone who cosponsored that amendment was willing to list their name down.

Are you guys retarded?
I support the amendment for a ratification vote.
Any member can propose an amendment btw so a proposal doesn’t mean anything.
I said there’s no evidence the majority of membership opposed extension. And you just maliciously dropped the most important part about majority of membership. And that amendment is not an opposition to extension it’s a vote to ratify.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

And that amendment is not an opposition to extension it’s a vote to ratify.

Why do you think someone would feel motivated to propose that amendment?

 

[Raise when?]

You’re possibly the most contentious prick on this website. Top 5 without question.

You can just see him gloating and smiling while writing “you will NEVER get that large pay raise”, even though he’s rooting against himself and his own best interests 😂

Bootlicking martyrs ftw?

 

[FightingIrish2012]

If you ask certain people, they’d tell you it’s Santa’s fault for not pushing to open negotiations after the Rinaldi extension.

That’s true too

 

[DADDYSbabyBIRD]

The majority of NATCA employees didn't vote for the union president yet a large majority is on here whining about Nick.

I'm fine with the extension. It was the right call. I think most of you are disconnected from reality of what type of pay other jobs get and lack of pay raises. I think most of you have been subsidized by the government through your entire lives with the military, DoD, or FAA and have no concept real life.

But yeah, we should have negotiated with the dude that is cancelling the TSA CBA, other CBAs already signed, and now possibly ours. He would definitely helped us. You're the type of person that thinks Reagan was a good dude. Probably sucked Bushes dick during the white book.

You want a real outside perspective that you can't fathom? Because this career field likes to jack itself off about our thick skin and all that bullshit? Nearly anyone can do this job. The only reason they can't get the 10's of thousands that apply to fill the ranks is due to the school house. You can all circle jerk about washout rates but any level 4 or 5 with a 50-60% success rate is due to the controllers being trash teachers and not because the candidates are bad.

Oh and you will never get that large pay raise. You guys can keep begging but youll never get it. NATCA can disappear a new union can form and it will be the same or worse. Maybe we will privatize and some of you can get the wake up call you deserve.

Nearly anyone can be a pilot, doctor, realtor, lawyer ect.. it's not about who has the potential, it's about who spent the time and effort to actually be. We get paid more than a McDonald's worker because it takes multiple years of training, jumping through hoops, and putting in time/effort to do our job. We get paid becuase what we do has real value in the world. We get paid becuase we hold a large amount of responsibility when we plug in, messing up can mean anywhere from wasting a few hundred bucks in gas to hundreds of people's lives.

I also actually disagree that anyone could do this job, well maybe a better way to put that is we shouldn't let just anyone do this job. We do need a high standards, people fail for a reason in most cases.

What I think gets people confused about is this job really doesn't need prerequisites, you don't need someone to have a college degree or previous work experience. You can apply with a high-school degree, but that doesn't mean just anyone can do the job. You have to apply, make it through academy, and then spend years training at each seperate facility you go to. Many fail during those steps, and rightfully so. That time/effort is what makes us Profesional controllers and is why we are paid well enough. We are replaceable... but it takes many years and many applicants to do so.


Edit: thankfully for most of us spelling and grammar are not super useful to a controller.

 

[SquawkHijack]

You’re also absolutely right about the internet. People who are happy with their salary and work/life balance don’t come here and seek out like minded people to praise their career.

Yeah isn’t it funny how those at high level facilities and/or where they want to be have ZERO gripes about NATCAs bullshit? Wild coincidence.