Nest list looking for advice

[Oh_Horizon]

Our Atm is shitting a brick just thinking about trying to hit the NTI with 4 trainees on one position at a time. It would be nice if they agency could send us a trainee every other month rather than 4 within 30 days. If we could get one in October that would be nice but we literally just had one two weeks ago and the next 3 are coming in the next 2 weeks. It is too much at once.

At one point ZOA had about 50 AGs packed into a room like we were an old POG collection or something, I think you guys are gonna be okay.

 

[Bandit117]

Our Atm is shitting a brick just thinking about trying to hit the NTI with 4 trainees on one position at a time. It would be nice if they agency could send us a trainee every other month rather than 4 within 30 days. If we could get one in October that would be nice but we literally just had one two weeks ago and the next 3 are coming in the next 2 weeks. It is too much at once.

You are aware the nti isn’t a shall. It’s a should. And there’s things called impediments to training that have number codes for like 36 different reasons? One of them is too many trainees and not enough positions. You know that right? It’s important you know that.

 

[CoffeeIV]

You are aware the nti isn’t a shall. It’s a should. And there’s things called impediments to training that have number codes for like 36 different reasons? One of them is too many trainees and not enough positions. You know that right? It’s important you know that.

I've had four different ATMs at two different facilities. They do not care about impediments. The districts are pushing this as a shall and impediments are nothing but excuses.

It's also hard to argue why people aren't getting their hours when trainees/trainers are getting nice shoves at the end of the day and taking longer breaks than the contract agrees to.

 

[Bandit117]

I've had four different ATMs at two different facilities. They do not care about impediments. The districts are pushing this as a shall and impediments are nothing but excuses.

It's also hard to argue why people aren't getting their hours when trainees/trainers are getting nice shoves at the end of the day and taking longer breaks than the contract agrees to.

If you have 4 trainees training on one position, and they are all on the same 8 hour shift, you can’t train each of them 2.5/3 hours. It’s also not a daily goal. It’s a weekly goal. The ATMs are wrong and NATCA has allowed the NTI to evolve into something it’s not. It was meant to be a focus on training and an effort to qualitatively evaluate training roadblocks, and it’s been turned into and FAA yes-man contest.

I’ve seen positions that in no way shape or form should be split be split, with no traffic, just so a supervisor can check the box that training got accomplished. When you rig the data by training at all costs in spite of the stated goals and objectives of the NTI you lose all ability to analyze and use the data gained in anything approaching a meaningful way because that data is no longer reflective of reality.

 

[CoffeeIV]

If you have 4 trainees training on one position, and they are all on the same 8 hour shift, you can’t train each of them 2.5/3 hours. It’s also not a daily goal. It’s a weekly goal. The ATMs are wrong and NATCA has allowed the NTI to evolve into something it’s not. It was meant to be a focus on training and an effort to qualitatively evaluate training roadblocks, and it’s been turned into and FAA yes-man contest.

I’ve seen positions that in no way shape or form should be split be split, with no traffic, just so a supervisor can check the box that training got accomplished. When you rig the data by training at all costs in spite of th= goals and objectives of the NTI you lose all ability to analyze and use the data gained in anything approaching a meaningful way because that data is no longer reflective of reality.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I've seen what multple ATMs/different districts are doing. Logic does not exist to it.

At some point I'm going to stop being lazy and look up the numbers. I'm 100% certain training is taking longer for my facility with the NTI than prior. Trainees are getting no downtime to actually absorb anything. They aren't getting much opportunity to sit on the positions they certified on and watch others work.

 

[Eve]

You are aware the nti isn’t a shall. It’s a should. And there’s things called impediments to training that have number codes for like 36 different reasons? One of them is too many trainees and not enough positions. You know that right? It’s important you know that.

I understand this but every ATM we've had in the past 5 years has been crazy about not using "excuses" and thinks we can't make one sit and work traffic or sit in the classroom for a bit for the others to train before putting them in training. They get staggered as much as possible but we are 1 in the tower before 8am and after 8pm so no training outside of those hours. We simply do not have the staffing or traffic during those times to train. We stagger start time and days off but there is still only so much you can do when they are training on the same position and we have 5 trainers. With 3 people we will be able to get them 3.5 hours a day. With 4 they will maybe get 2-2.5 if they're on the same position. With 5? Maybe an hour a day? What is so hard to believe we need to spread them out a bit? Take us off the list until October, let these guys check out through ground before you send us another one? We're not a big tower where FD/CD/GC are all separate positions. All 3 are combined here.

At one point ZOA had about 50 AGs packed into a room like we were an old POG collection or something, I think you guys are gonna be okay.

We have 9 cpcs. How many cpcs does ZOA have? We have 2 positions. How many does a single area at ZOA have?

 

[pedaNTIc]

I'm 100% certain training is taking longer for my facility with the NTI than prior. Trainees are getting no downtime to actually absorb anything. They aren't getting much opportunity to sit on the positions they certified on and watch others work.

I’m in complete agreement with this, seeing it in my trainee right now. Plus there’s little to no time for them to be in the books and absorb that too, so that training sessions are practical applications of what they know.

 

[Mr. Mack]

804 to where?

AVP

 

[Soul_Controller]

I understand this but every ATM we've had in the past 5 years has been crazy about not using "excuses" and thinks we can't make one sit and work traffic or sit in the classroom for a bit for the others to train before putting them in training. They get staggered as much as possible but we are 1 in the tower before 8am and after 8pm so no training outside of those hours. We simply do not have the staffing or traffic during those times to train. We stagger start time and days off but there is still only so much you can do when they are training on the same position and we have 5 trainers. With 3 people we will be able to get them 3.5 hours a day. With 4 they will maybe get 2-2.5 if they're on the same position. With 5? Maybe an hour a day? What is so hard to believe we need to spread them out a bit? Take us off the list until October, let these guys check out through ground before you send us another one? We're not a big tower where FD/CD/GC are all separate positions. All 3 are combined here.


We have 9 cpcs. How many cpcs does ZOA have? We have 2 positions. How many does a single area at ZOA have?

Not one gives a shit what your ladder climbing ATMs think. Take the devs. You never know when you'll stop getting them.

 

[32andBelow]

I understand this but every ATM we've had in the past 5 years has been crazy about not using "excuses" and thinks we can't make one sit and work traffic or sit in the classroom for a bit for the others to train before putting them in training. They get staggered as much as possible but we are 1 in the tower before 8am and after 8pm so no training outside of those hours. We simply do not have the staffing or traffic during those times to train. We stagger start time and days off but there is still only so much you can do when they are training on the same position and we have 5 trainers. With 3 people we will be able to get them 3.5 hours a day. With 4 they will maybe get 2-2.5 if they're on the same position. With 5? Maybe an hour a day? What is so hard to believe we need to spread them out a bit? Take us off the list until October, let these guys check out through ground before you send us another one? We're not a big tower where FD/CD/GC are all separate positions. All 3 are combined here.


We have 9 cpcs. How many cpcs does ZOA have? We have 2 positions. How many does a single area at ZOA have?

Stop worrying about the traffic. Train all the time. The traffic is what your traffic is.

 

[Somenewguy]

Yea, it takes 3-12 months to get someone on Ncept anyway. If they can't check out on ground in 6 months then wash them out and try again with the next one

 

[Eve]

Yea, it takes 3-12 months to get someone on Ncept anyway. If they can't check out on ground in 6 months then wash them out and try again with the next one

This isn't about ncept it's a nest list which means they'd be here in about 2 pay periods. We have not ever gotten anyone from ncept.

Stop worrying about the traffic. Train all the time. The traffic is what your traffic is.

You missed the staffing part. We train between 8am and 8pm when he have the staffing for it.

Not one gives a shit what your ladder climbing ATMs think. Take the devs. You never know when you'll stop getting them.

We get 4 every year. Usually within 30 days of each other. It'll never stop. Lol usually 1 or 2 from the academy and 2 or 3 from prior experience.

 

[Soul_Controller]

We get 4 every year. Usually within 30 days of each other. It'll never stop. Lol usually 1 or 2 from the academy and 2 or 3 from prior experience.

Until there's a shutdown or a sequester or a pandemic etc

 

[Papacharlie327]

Phf has 1 trainee and 3 more on the way with only 9 cpcs and 5 trainers. Please don't! Any other time we'd love to have someone. We are full. I don't even know why we're on any lists.

Let me get this straight. Y’all are phat with 100% checkout and ur saying not to come? This is EXACTLY the kind of facility people want to be at. We never hit NTI numbers at our facility.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Let me get this straight. Y’all are phat with 100% checkout and ur saying not to come? This is EXACTLY the kind of facility people want to be at. We never hit NTI numbers at our facility.

Nobody wants to be at Bad Newz.

 

[AlphaLima@]

View attachment 8681

MKG is the hidden jewel on there. Great work life balance. And not too hard to transfer once you certify. Area is beautiful too. Small beach towns

 

[Soul_Controller]

Nobody wants to be at Bad Newz.

Traffic, crime, weirdly isolated for being part of a Metropolitan area, and expensive, what's not to love

 

[Raise when?]

Same. Infuriating, because I didn’t know any better. Now I’m stuck

But do you have your radar ticket at least?

 

[Mike Kilo]

Let me get this straight. Y’all are phat with 100% checkout and ur saying not to come? This is EXACTLY the kind of facility people want to be at. We never hit NTI numbers at our facility.

And then also complains about people taking sup jobs to get out 😂.