Rich Santa - Fatigue: Facts vs Panic

[ManBearPig]

Oh look another poor take from Boots.

Boots is 100% correct. The 6hr rule is for 2025 only. Straight week of mids is coming in 2026 unless a new MOU is negotiated. You can play with the schedule to keep a rotation, but the the straight mids will be a thing 100% when the 6hr goes away.

 

[32andBelow]

100%!!!!!!!! And that's exactly what it is. Not only 1 9hr, but maybe a 10hr or 2 9hrs to make it work. People can be very set in thier ways.....

The whole thing is a disaster.

But I think that type of schedule will just get tanked by people refusing to agree. If I work more than 8 I want either OT or more time off

 

[ManBearPig]

But I think that type of schedule will just get tanked by people refusing to agree. If I work more than 8 I want either OT or more time off

Depends on your number and local honestly. A straight 8 all mids is legal in the contract. It's not AWS.

"Oh you have a hardship duento the AWS? You're gonna love the straight mids all year."

Not saying we would do that, but it's an option. Also, my understanding is on management side, they are being told someone declining the 9 or 10hr shift could result in a rebid. That would 100% be used against the BUEs.

Again, the whole thing is fucked.

 

[32andBelow]

Depends on your number and local honestly. A straight 8 all mids is legal in the contract. It's not AWS.

"Oh you have a hardship duento the AWS? You're gonna love the straight mids all year."

Not saying we would do that, but it's an option. Also, my understanding is on management side, they are being told someone declining the 9 or 10hr shift could result in a rebid. That would 100% be used against the BUEs.

Again, the whole thing is fucked.

That’s why this ends in stringer shifts or rotating straight shifts. Plus the 6 hour thing is only for 1 year. Also can you imagine having a 6 hour shift you can bang in on? I’d rather do straight mids than fake rattler. And I really don’t mind the current rattler.

 

[ManBearPig]

That’s why this ends in stringer shifts or rotating straight shifts. Plus the 6 hour thing is only for 1 year. Also can you imagine having a 6 hour shift you can bang in on? I’d rather do straight mids than fake rattler. And I really don’t mind the current rattler.

Yeah I agree. People just don't want it. And they will hold out.

Good news will be no one bangs on the 9 or 10 hr swing hahahah.

The rule should have been 12 hrs between shifts with 10 before the mid. Would have actually helped the people.

 

[32andBelow]

Yeah I agree. People just don't want it. And they will hold out.

Good news will be no one bangs on the 9 or 10 hr swing hahahah.

The rule should have been 12 hrs between shifts with 10 before the mid. Would have actually helped the people.

It should be 4 8 hour shifts if they really care about fatigue. Or some admin to get more rest

 

[Nothanks]

Not enough staffing for 4/10s for all. That would be great though

Build the schedule elevate to your RVP. Fight,fight,fight. That’s what a union does, you are already giving up. Weak

 

[Soul_Controller]

All you’re doing is changing who is working the shift that you work today.

This is what people that have never attempted to write a schedule say. You typically lose sets of RDOs and if you want completely fixed shifts during the work week (no mixing of days and eves) then you will also waste an extra CPC or two just for transitions.

 

[32andBelow]

This is what people that have never attempted to write a schedule say. You typically lose sets of RDOs and if you want completely fixed shifts during the work week (no mixing of days and eves) then you will also waste an extra CPC or two just for transitions.

That’s why the split RDO 4/10 schedule is gaining some traction

 

[Raise when?]

why don't people want straights again? i don't want straight mids but id take straight swings or days actually.

 

[Nothanks]

why don't people want straights again? i don't want straight mids but id take straight swings or days actually.

Because not enough people want straight mids. Just like you don’t want them


10 hour shifts is the answer, period. More dif pay, one less day driving into work. (I know the ….”but you can be assigned more overtime !!!! Freaking call out sick then if you don’t want it, or get more money, your choice “ )

Don’t over complicate this you turds

 

[Raise when?]

Because not enough people want straight mids. Just like you don’t want them


10 hour shifts is the answer, period. More dif pay, one less day driving into work. (I know the ….”but you can be assigned more overtime !!!! Freaking call out sick then if you don’t want it, or get more money, your choice “ )

Don’t over complicate this you turds

im in the top 1/3rd of seniority, so it wouldn't be me regardless lol

 

[Wizard]

Build the schedule elevate to your RVP. Fight,fight,fight. That’s what a union does, you are already giving up. Weak

Not sure where you have been but this union is cooked

 

[Soul_Controller]

That’s why the split RDO 4/10 schedule is gaining some traction

Slower places should benefit because they probably don't have busy late evenings or early mornings. A longer mid keeps you from wasting man hours on late closers and early openers. Should help with some of the efficiency hit compared to the fatigue flex.
And straight shifts are a lot harder than people realize. Other jobs rotate RDOs or have no overlapping shifts, or have 12 hour shifts, or don't work 40 hours a week etc. Shoehorning our 40 hour overlapping work week into that doesn't play out as cleanly as people think.

 

[32andBelow]

Slower places should benefit because they probably don't have busy late evenings or early mornings. A longer mid keeps you from wasting man hours on late closers and early openers. Should help with some of the efficiency hit compared to the fatigue flex.
And straight shifts are a lot harder than people realize. Other jobs rotate RDOs or have no overlapping shifts, or have 12 hour shifts, or don't work 40 hours a week etc. Shoehorning our 40 hour overlapping work week into that doesn't play out as cleanly as people think.

You just need more likes at more different times instead of having a bunch of people coming in at the same time. But I agree we really need to be freed from the 40 hour work week

 

[Sassyquatch]

You just need more likes at more different times instead of having a bunch of people coming in at the same time. But I agree we really need to be freed from the 40 hour work week

Also agree. Since this fatigue MOU came out, I've been saying we should really be on a reduced work week.

These new rules are mimicking rest requirements that pilots & flight attendants have, except they only give us 4 days off month. It just doesn't work.

 

[bravounite33]

This is what people that have never attempted to write a schedule say. You typically lose sets of RDOs and if you want completely fixed shifts during the work week (no mixing of days and eves) then you will also waste an extra CPC or two just for transitions.

I’ll tell that to my scheduler who built it. Our numbers are exactly the same on each shift from this years rattler schedule compared to next years week of nights, week of days, week of mids schedule. So I don’t know what to tell you when you say we’re losing bodies cause the numbers match. The guy is a nerd and 100x better on excel than me so I don’t doubt him.

Again, we didn’t change a single thing other than eliminate the rotation from night to day in a single week. We won’t work the exact same shift every day but all shifts are nights or days. Nights we work 12, 14 or 15. Days 6, 7, or 9s. Our night week we start on a 15 and end on a 12. Day week, we start on a 9 and end on a 6. Same rotation as today except it’s over 2 weeks instead of 1. Every 5 weeks, it’s a week of mids.

No idea how others are doing it, but that’s what our local voted on. I get some locals don’t want it, which is fine. Do what you guys want. But complaining on here instead of finding a solution your local would go for isn’t it.

Also agree. Since this fatigue MOU came out, I've been saying we should really be on a reduced work week.

These new rules are mimicking rest requirements that pilots & flight attendants have, except they only give us 4 days off month. It just doesn't work.

100% agree! 32 hour work weeks need to be a big want in the next CBA. Won’t happen but the agency needs to be put on the defensive on it. Their own study says our schedule induces fatigue so we already have some ammunition.

 

[KP-ATC]

Not enough staffing for 4/10s for all. That would be great though

That's what staffing triggers are for

 

[bravounite33]

That's what staffing triggers are for

I didn’t think those existed outside of NY

 

[Raise when?]

100% agree! 32 hour work weeks need to be a big want in the next CBA. Won’t happen but the agency needs to be put on the defensive on it. Their own study says our schedule induces fatigue so we already have some ammunition.

it's not even a new thing people have been arguing for it for quite some time now