Scamming Hardships

FightingIrish2012

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Messages
305
I hate to even bring this up but it is a relevant topic. Apparently since NCEPT started there has been a 400% jump in hardship requests. Every one heard of the story where someone was allegedly transferred from ZOA to DEN as a trainee because they said they had allergies. What have you seen in terms of hardships? All legit from the ones you heard about in your facility, or are people exaggerating the paperwork, or completely making something up? No names or facilities listed please just the story itself. Also have you ever heard of someone being called out on a fraudulent hardship and what was the result? I'm not against the hardship program but I would like tor see the FAA (and NATCA) audit these hard, making sure they are for real. And then if granted follow the guidelines for placement, which I believe is a move to a reasonable commuting distance to the area you request not jumping more then 3 facility levels, not letting the person just hand pick the specific facility which is seems like is always what happens.
 

Alpha_bravo2

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
87
Facility
PNS Pensacola Tower
I know of a controller that had his hardship denied but kept tweeking it and resubmitting it, and it never got approved, he ended up resigning. I think if it's gets denied once don't count on it getting approved.
I was granted a hardship during training at my last facility, and immediately some folks thought I was gaming the system, with some weak BS reason. I'm not going to put all my info out there but mine was cold weather related, and I ended up at the ER twice. As a single income family I wasn't going to risk being hospitalized multiple times during the Midwest winter's.
I do think the FAA and NATCA need to change to hardship program to maybe make them all a case by case basis. Sure allergies technically fit into one of the categories but is every allergy related hardship really legit?
 

FightingIrish2012

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Messages
305
If hardships are now considered a “scam”, then what exactly does that make NCEPT?
Hardships are now the scam to counter the scam that is NCEPT lol. I hate that though, just bid to become a FLM to get out, that is more honorable then a hardship scam.
 

Josephml21

Forum Sage
Messages
310
Damn! I'm just a scam scam scammer! I was picked up for my current facility via ncept, given a release date iaw the rules and fell behind forsure one possibly two others. I used a hardship (it was legit) to move up my release date.

Myself and the other guy that were behind said #1 person found out later that they eventually turned down their offer last minute because they didn't like where they fell seniority wise and just stayed put...
 

GulfBravoPapa

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Messages
723
Had a guy at my previous facility that never actually even made it to lab on any position (I cannot recall but he may have gone to TSEW while there) and then left on his third hardship of his career. Scam level expert.
 

FightingIrish2012

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Messages
305
Had a guy at my previous facility that never actually even made it to lab on any position (I cannot recall but he may have gone to TSEW while there) and then left on his third hardship of his career. Scam level expert.
I can see that, some people really have it down. Especially new hires who came from another government job and even the military. They come knowing the “rules” and key words to drop to get things like this approved.
 

NavyTrev

Trusted Contributor
FAA
Messages
61
Facility
I90 Houston Tracon
I’m not sure the legitimacy of the hardship but I know someone that transferred to a very desirable lvl 11 tower that was 1 person short of being 100% staffed. The tracon (74%) center (78%) at the time. Center and Tracon are 3 miles away from said tower. Cherry picked the exact facility they wanted.
 
Messages
1
I’ve seen 3 from a low level facility in less than two years. I’m not gonna judge anyone for doing what they’ve gotta do. But it’s definitely deflating when you’ve got 10 people that want to ERR and getting to our target CPC number just seems impossible.
 

32andBelow

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Messages
489
I’ve seen 3 from a low level facility in less than two years. I’m not gonna judge anyone for doing what they’ve gotta do. But it’s definitely deflating when you’ve got 10 people that want to ERR and getting to our target CPC number just seems impossible.
Shouldn’t fight amongst ourselves. The original placement process is the problem.
 

Maintainvfr

Forum Sage
Messages
342
Shouldn’t fight amongst ourselves. The original placement process is the problem.
On the other hand, part of what is making some of the stuck facilities so hard to get out of is people hardshipping out.

Well that was true before. The new restrictions are shit
 

CaptainObvious

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Messages
680
I’ve said it time and time again. You guys assume hardshipping is so easy, and you demonize anyone who does. I hardshipped. Took me 4 doctors notes, over a years worth of exhaustive medical treatment, and several hundred pages worth of documentation. I applied at every FLM, DOD, and even TMU job close to where I was trying to go. I even applied to N90 just to leave and considered quitting. After all this, I still was treated by my coworkers as a scamming piece of shit.


You guys can feel free to
 

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Josephml21

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Messages
310
So what's the answer? Crack down hard on hardships and fix the err process... Anonymous selections so there is no good ol boy / favoritism. Preference points for years of service at the same facility, 4 lv max move so anyone essentially can go from a 5 to a 12 in two moves.

And if you wash you go back to your facility, have a cooling off period before bidding out again, same for refusing to go after accepting a selection / same if you're caught just bidding to block others... Then when you can bid out your capped at a 2 or 3 lv move?

Lol bring on the fire and flame!
 
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FightingIrish2012

Forum Sage
Messages
305
So what's the answer? Crack down hard on hardships and fix the err process... Anonymous selections so there is no good ol boy / favoritism. Preference points for years of service at the same facility, 4 lv max move so anyone essentially can go from a 5 to a 12 in two moves.

And if you wash you go back to your facility, have a cooling off period before bidding out again, same for refusing to go after accepting a selection / same if you're caught just bidding to block others... Then when you can bid out your capped at a 2 or 3 lv move?

Lol bring on the fire and flame!
I like all those ideas in some form, going to take big moves like that to fix the process.
 

PushingTin

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Messages
444
"Placement is allowed in the same, lower, or up to three (3) ATC facility Pay Levels above their current ATC Facility Pay Level"

There is a lot of scamming of hardships for sure. It just hit me though that EVEN HARDSHIPS are made much more difficult for people stuck in low level hell. NCEPT offers little to no hope, and even if someone in your family is dying of stage 4 cancer (Etc) it better not be more than 3 levels! You could never handle that kind of traffic afterall. Trust us we know best we will do your thinking for you since you probably can't really think for yourself anyway, you are only at a level 5. You are hardly even a real person. Just someone to pay the dues so the big boys can meet and decide big things on your behalf.


 

FoggyWindow

Member
FAA
Messages
62
Facility
ZHU Houston Center
I’m not sure the legitimacy of the hardship but I know someone that transferred to a very desirable lvl 11 tower that was 1 person short of being 100% staffed. The tracon (74%) center (78%) at the time. Center and Tracon are 3 miles away from said tower. Cherry picked the exact facility they wanted.
Daaaaaaaaang
 

Bandit117

Lurker
Messages
2
I’m not sure the legitimacy of the hardship but I know someone that transferred to a very desirable lvl 11 tower that was 1 person short of being 100% staffed. The tracon (74%) center (78%) at the time. Center and Tracon are 3 miles away from said tower. Cherry picked the exact facility they wanted.
MSP?
 

boots

Forum Sage
Messages
319
"Placement is allowed in the same, lower, or up to three (3) ATC facility Pay Levels above their current ATC Facility Pay Level"

There is a lot of scamming of hardships for sure. It just hit me though that EVEN HARDSHIPS are made much more difficult for people stuck in low level hell. NCEPT offers little to no hope, and even if someone in your family is dying of stage 4 cancer (Etc) it better not be more than 3 levels! You could never handle that kind of traffic afterall. Trust us we know best we will do your thinking for you since you probably can't really think for yourself anyway, you are only at a level 5. You are hardly even a real person. Just someone to pay the dues so the big boys can meet and decide big things on your behalf.


You can see several examples of people getting more than 3 levels on ksn
 
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