For credit yeah at the front end about 30 minutes max, and depending on the supe that comes in you can credit out at the end, depending on staffing for the 6.
The ‘hard’ Saturday night mid shift
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For credit yeah at the front end about 30 minutes max, and depending on the supe that comes in you can credit out at the end, depending on staffing for the 6.
P
PushingTin
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Great point. It a stupid legacy ATC'ism. That mid (Mon/TUE PDOs) is generally seen as on of the top 2 schedules it seems, both for the few minutes of scam OT as well as the truncated 6 hour shift. I guess the answer is because the sheep think they like it and don't dare ever change anything ever, or else TANTRUM ofc.
yeah but if they put you in position tell em you're fatigued and start boo hooing and giving em hell! Since the CBA says you are allowed to leave as long as you are recallable, I personally argue that its fully legal for you to leave, so long as you dont explicitly say "im going home and going to sleep". then again im an extremist and kinda like when they try playing games. makes things less mundane
Speaking of credit, can someone explain if "earn and burn" is legal or not? My last facility did it all the time on the Saturday mid, come in an hour and a half early for credit then burn it on the back end on the same shift. My new facility says it's not legal if you're earning credit and using it on the same shift.
The contract says:
Section 6. “Credit hours” are non-overtime hours worked pursuant to a flexible work schedule established under this Article which are in excess of an employee’s basic work requirement and which the employee elects to work, after approval by the Agency, so as to vary the length of a workweek or a workday. Employees are not paid Base Pay or overtime pay for credit hours when they earn them. Employees earning credit hours are not entitled to night differential, Sunday premium pay, or holiday premium pay. An employee may use credit hours during a subsequent day, week, or pay period to allow the employee to be absent from an equal number of hours of the employee’s basic work requirement with no loss of Base Pay.
My argument would be, it says "subsequent day" meaning a following day and not a subsequent shift. So technically you're coming in on a Saturday then burning it on a Sunday. Though if it said subsequent shift then your Saturday mid is counted as a Sunday shift so you wouldn't be able to use it until Monday.
Am I wrong? Is the management at my facility wrong? I'd like to normalize it here if it is allowed... don't see why management would deny it since it actually saves the FAA money with night diff.
The contract says:
Section 6. “Credit hours” are non-overtime hours worked pursuant to a flexible work schedule established under this Article which are in excess of an employee’s basic work requirement and which the employee elects to work, after approval by the Agency, so as to vary the length of a workweek or a workday. Employees are not paid Base Pay or overtime pay for credit hours when they earn them. Employees earning credit hours are not entitled to night differential, Sunday premium pay, or holiday premium pay. An employee may use credit hours during a subsequent day, week, or pay period to allow the employee to be absent from an equal number of hours of the employee’s basic work requirement with no loss of Base Pay.
My argument would be, it says "subsequent day" meaning a following day and not a subsequent shift. So technically you're coming in on a Saturday then burning it on a Sunday. Though if it said subsequent shift then your Saturday mid is counted as a Sunday shift so you wouldn't be able to use it until Monday.
Am I wrong? Is the management at my facility wrong? I'd like to normalize it here if it is allowed... don't see why management would deny it since it actually saves the FAA money with night diff.
Earn and burn is legal. Although on the mid I thought the max credit you can earn is 1 hour because you’re capped at 9 hours of operational duty.
Yeah probably... Both facilities held people over for 2 hours on holdover up until recently because they didn't know that rule in the 7210.3
Even if it was true that you can't "earn and burn" the exact same credit hour on a single shift, you could just come in for one hour of credit some time earlier in the week. Then you earn an hour on the front side, but the one that you burn on the back side was earned on a different day. You'd only have to come in one time to make it legal for the rest of your career, as long as you maintain a balance of at least one credit hour.
Now to get credit somehow. Current management denies it constantly lol.
julietoscar
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In the comments write "controller fatigue mitigation"
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To the supervisor that is reading this, nothing personal man, but I’ve had FLM’s do this to protect on the backend for sick hits in the event they needed to do a hold over. One of my more infamous stories: Every FLM knew I was a credit whore, 2 hours almost every day before shift on the dot so that I could take my Friday off. On principle I refused to put my desire to work credit in WMT because it honestly depends on how I feel for the day. Shortly before I transferred upon my arrival at the facility a supervisor denied me credit (at 1000), then on the white sheet put me down for a two hour hold over on a 1200 line. Naturally one of my colleagues (ain’t got no gas, you know who you are) asked me what I was going to do. Went to my car, approached the security gate, called into the watch desk and banged out. One of my colleagues was alert and ready for the OT call.
Moral of the story, in facility that burns through OT don’t deny credit that helps the facility especially when you have someone that works credit religiously so the previous shift can take an early shove. Even 15 minutes here and there can make a difference.
Soul_Controller
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I dont remember where exactly it's from, but I think one of the fatigue MOUs says you shouldn't do this. I know that doesn't stop FLMs but there is some push back to be had.
boots
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Sounds like they needed you on the back end not the front and you bitched out and fucked your co workers because you didn’t get your way.
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Hard negative brother, when you start to notice a pattern that you seem to be the one that always gets held over it gets old. Plus protecting for sick hits goes against the contract.
Anon980234
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If you're coming in for 2hours credit you should probably be calling ahead, but if its being approved 100% of the time I could see not calling I guess.
Also I've never been fucked over by anyone calling in sick for any reason ever. I couldn't imagine thinking this sector is going to shit because 1 person called in sick. You guys know if they put a better controller there they wouldn't even notice or care that someone was sick right? I swear the people who check who called in sick or care are the same controllers you have to work around.
Also I've never been fucked over by anyone calling in sick for any reason ever. I couldn't imagine thinking this sector is going to shit because 1 person called in sick. You guys know if they put a better controller there they wouldn't even notice or care that someone was sick right? I swear the people who check who called in sick or care are the same controllers you have to work around.
boots
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Calling in sick because you didn’t get your 2 hours of credit ?
Anon980234
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I literally don't care why anyone calls in sick.
Somenewguy
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It sounds like you coming in early really didn't help the facility, and maybe you're not entitled to get your special princess schedule every single day. And then you threw a fit about not getting your way, kind of like an entitled brat.
Abusing the "rights" we have is how they get lost/renegotiated. The system we have is not sustainable if everyone acts as selfishly as you do all of the time. Working 2 hours of credit to get the relieved controller his last two hours of shift on break doesn't even sound like a reason to get credit - but I'm glad you feel like this is a hill you're willing to let your facility die on (after your management shits on everyone elses credit requests in the future). Thanks for being a true team player.
In solidarity.
32andBelow
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and then get every Friday off
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You can say that but when you have a slew of medical appointments schedule on your Friday it becomes a necessity. When you had to get a waiver for gene therapy and have to do everything from shitting in a special bucket to have loads of blood taken then yeah it makes sense to me and those on my crew I told on a personal level. The relieved crew would rather have taken the shove and grabbed an extra hour or so of sleep before the mid then just the 6.5 you usually got.
Credit was a god send and kept me from burning more sick leave than I could accrue. Talk about it how you wish and interpret it how you choose but when you play fast and loose with it, using it for valid medical appointments, it helps.
Now I didn’t have to give a reason for it and perhaps the entitlement was misinterpreted without a full explanation but this was the case at hand.
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boots
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Credit was a godsend for this person except when it wasn’t convenient for them.Then it’s bang out in the parking lot when it’s not. What a joke.
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Your opinion brother, we all have one. Cheers.
