Training hold

[ClearanceClarence]

I'm not confident that the fight you are looking for is the right path. Maybe NATCA is fighting to keep trainees home, to reduce the possibility of COVID spread? Maybe they view health as more important than raises?

Maybe it completely sucks for you, but more often than not trainees prefer this measure?

Though I agree they could at least specify what their goal is.

That’s not a reasonable argument at this point though. Coronavirus cases have been trending down for several weeks, which in turn has lead to reopening of virtually every state (many of them almost back to normal). Every non-FAA friend I have has returned to work. You still take precautions obviously (cleanings, masks, etc) but at this point, the idea that no trainee anywhere can even enter the buildings is ridiculous.

 

[CF]

All
Controllers
Are
Bastards

 

[omgwtfbbq69lol]

That’s not a reasonable argument at this point though. Coronavirus cases have been trending down for several weeks, which in turn has lead to reopening of virtually every state (many of them almost back to normal). Every non-FAA friend I have has returned to work. You still take precautions obviously (cleanings, masks, etc) but at this point, the idea that no trainee anywhere can even enter the buildings is ridiculous.

I would rather stay home then go to work and not train. There is not enough traffic to get a reasonable amount of training. Going back to work now isn't going to certify you any faster if there are no planes in the sky, not to mention you are going to be competing with other trainees to get time IF there are opportunities for training.

 

[Gusher]

I can see NATCA doing something national to get some financial incentive to the scum, err trainees. Like when new programs have been introduced delaying training they gave some kind of ‘bonuses’.

 

[Mike Kilo]

I would rather stay home then go to work and not train. There is not enough traffic to get a reasonable amount of training. Going back to work now isn't going to certify you any faster if there are no planes in the sky, not to mention you are going to be competing with other trainees to get time IF there are opportunities for training.

I’m with this guy. Not every situation is the same but I already spent over two months sitting on FD/CD waiting on a class/sim that was starting two days after I was sent home lol. I’m already dreading going back just to sit on CD for another two or three months. Pure torture. And I know Zs have it worse lol.

 

[CaptainObvious]

I’m with this guy. Not every situation is the same but I already spent over two months sitting on FD/CD waiting on a class/sim that was starting two days after I was sent home lol. I’m already dreading going back just to sit on CD for another two or three months. Pure torture. And I know Zs have it worse lol.

Two months? Oh the humanity!

I can see NATCA doing something national to get some financial incentive to the scum, err trainees. Like when new programs have been introduced delaying training they gave some kind of ‘bonuses’.

I sincerely doubt this. Word I got is they’re not even discussing people on EA at the moment. How true that is I’m not sure. And if it follows ERAM training delays, the $1000 lump sum isn’t even close to lost raises and future earnings.

 

[mnsalty]

I would rather stay home then go to work and not train. There is not enough traffic to get a reasonable amount of training. Going back to work now isn't going to certify you any faster if there are no planes in the sky, not to mention you are going to be competing with other trainees to get time IF there are opportunities for training.

That's not how it works. You train on the current traffic. You can't wait 3 years until traffic comes back to train replacements.

I can see NATCA doing something national to get some financial incentive to the scum, err trainees. Like when new programs have been introduced delaying training they gave some kind of ‘bonuses’.

Not a freaking chance in you-know-where that this happens.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

Because the world is reopening, traffic is going back up, and there is still 0 indication that NATCA is fighting for trainees to get back to work. All while every developmental is missing out on thousands of dollars in lost wages down the road with every month this delay is extended. There’s been virtually no communication as to what the plan is or what they’re even advocating for. The only thing people have been told for 3 months is “there’s a national workgroup discussing training.” Trainees pay the same % in dues as everybody else but many feel like our interests are not being fought for at this point.

If trainees went back to work and somebody contracted the virus because of it, then members would kick and scream that the union didn’t do enough for the safety and well-being of its members. Yes, it sucks being home and not advancing. However, mitigating the risk of spreading a virus is much more important. In regards to traffic being on the rise: look at the TSA numbers. Passenger counts are at roughly 15% of what it was a year ago on the same day (16.5% for June 7). That’s not exactly storming back or a “V-Shaped Recovery”.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

I think that the key is that it shouldn't be a national decision. Traffic is picking up at different rates for different airports. We aren't doing anything at my airport... But some of the VFR towers are hopping. This decision should be made at a regional, district, or local level... And evaluated by someone that actually knows and understands that facility's traffic and operation.

 

[mnsalty]

If trainees went back to work and somebody contracted the virus because of it, then members would kick and scream that the union didn’t do enough for the safety and well-being of its members. Yes, it sucks being home and not advancing. However, mitigating the risk of spreading a virus is much more important. In regards to traffic being on the rise: look at the TSA numbers. Passenger counts are at roughly 15% of what it was a year ago on the same day (16.5% for June 7). That’s not exactly storming back or a “V-Shaped Recovery”.

Passenger counts don't mean boo to us, we get ops counts, not pax counts.

 

[jdatc]

......competing with other trainees to get time IF there are opportunities for training.

Or trainers who want to sit right next to you and train you. Wonder if I can get a 40' cord.....

 

[Soss]

Some nutsack on Reddit said he's going back to ZAN and got a 48 hours notice to return. No Idea is dev level. Also NATCA has no incentive to send us back. They get paid the same whether we are in the building or not, and if they bring back training they might have to deviate off their juicy 5/10 schedules.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

Passenger counts don't mean boo to us, we get ops counts, not pax counts.

How obtuse can someone be? No shit, but it stands to reason that as passenger counts increase the number of operations would also increase.

 

[mnsalty]

How obtuse can someone be? No shit, but it stands to reason that as passenger counts increase the number of operations would also increase.

It's not a direct correlation by any means...

 

[Gusher]

I sincerely doubt this. Word I got is they’re not even discussing people on EA at the moment. How true that is I’m not sure. And if it follows ERAM training delays, the $1000 lump sum isn’t even close to lost raises and future earnings.

You just never know. That $1000 was for only a 1 month delay, this is going to be pushing upwards of 6 to 9 months or longer for most people.

 

[bomber996]

I'm not going to complain at all while my probation time clicks down. It does suck that I was scheduled to be on the floor at my Z by now working towards D1, but there are worse alternatives.

 

[Maintainvfr]

It's not a direct correlation by any means...

Lol it is absolutely a direct correlation. I'm guessing you mean to say it's not a linear correlation.


For those that are still complaining and are saying that trainees should be brought back on a facility by facility basis:

They are. You may not have been, but there are a number of facilities that have recalled or are starting to recall trainees. You have been fairly compensated (likely more than fairly) for the work you have done and are currently qualified to do. Yes, we all understand how frustrated you are and why you are frustrated. That doesn't make you entitled to more money, or mean that you should come back early to train on nothing and put others at risk. You're on a paid vacation, please excuse everyone for not rallying behind bringing you back for no reason and potentially shutting down a facility.

I seriously don't understand how this conversation is still going on? The value doesn't outweigh the risk in a lot of places. Your entire argument is essentially "I don't care about anything except my raises." That is an impossible cause for the union to champion after fighting for our safety during the pandemic.

 

[mnsalty]

Yes, we all understand how frustrated you are and why you are frustrated.

doesn't really sound like it...

please excuse everyone for not rallying behind bringing you back for no reason

please also excuse all the trainees when they quit NATCA

That is an impossible cause for the union to champion after fighting for our safety during the pandemic.

Exactly! NATCA is happily fighting for those who are actually talking to airplanes, the heck with everyone else!

 

[CaptainObvious]

doesn't really sound like it...



please also excuse all the trainees when they quit NATCA



Exactly! NATCA is happily fighting for those who are actually talking to airplanes, the heck with everyone else!

They’re not fighting all that hard for “essential” trainees, who are forced to go to work and are having their raises delayed. Probably one of the shittiest spots to be in.

 

[mnsalty]

They’re not fighting all that hard for “essential” trainees, who are forced to go to work and are having their raises delayed. Probably one of the shittiest spots to be in.

Fair enough, but they're fighting for the "safety" of those who are "essential." or something.

Shitty, yes. Even more shitty - the folks at home who have impending furloughs coming in october.