Training hold

[spider]

spider about as big a curmudgeon as I am!

Yup. I give up. There’s just no point in arguing anymore.

 

[Super Salt]

Yup. I give up. There’s just no point in arguing anymore.

Nothing wrong with giving in, my man. We have to accept what we’ve become. #Proverbs

 

[Atl24Atc]

Would you take a 20-80k paycut to sit at home?

Who has been forced to take a 20-80k pay cut? There’s a difference between getting a raise and taking a pay cut. Don’t know your personal situation but my guess is if your not getting CPC pay during this pandemic it’s probably because you haven’t proven you can be a CPC at the facility your at. Even more so at a center, if your not working right now it’s because you can’t work a combined R side. All of which means you are still at best around halfway through your training. So to be frank, theres no guarantee you’d ever see that CPC pay at that facility anyway. I’ve seen people wash out on their last R side. Not trying to be a richard but just being real. Like I said, I get it. We’ve all been there before at some point with the FAA and training. The lack of urgency, communication, direction, you name it. This situation is unique and certainly sucks, and I agree more so for those who are training rather than CPCs. But that doesn’t mean your entitled to money you haven’t earned yet. And it doesn’t mean the rest of us have to be put at increased risk so that you can have to opportunity to earn a raise, all the while training on a fraction of the traffic you’ll be expected to work going forward.

 

[bravoindia]

There is 0 reason to be training right now. At any facility. This is a shit show we’re all dealing with right now. Just like before COVID-19, when traffic returns it’ll be a shit show that all the TRACONS will have to fix.

 

[SIXTY-NINE]

Who has been forced to take a 20-80k pay cut? There’s a difference between getting a raise and taking a pay cut. Don’t know your personal situation but my guess is if your not getting CPC pay during this pandemic it’s probably because you haven’t proven you can be a CPC at the facility your at. Even more so at a center, if your not working right now it’s because you can’t work a combined R side. All of which means you are still at best around halfway through your training. So to be frank, theres no guarantee you’d ever see that CPC pay at that facility anyway. I’ve seen people wash out on their last R side. Not trying to be a richard but just being real. Like I said, I get it. We’ve all been there before at some point with the FAA and training. The lack of urgency, communication, direction, you name it. This situation is unique and certainly sucks, and I agree more so for those who are training rather than CPCs. But that doesn’t mean your entitled to money you haven’t earned yet. And it doesn’t mean the rest of us have to be put at increased risk so that you can have to opportunity to earn a raise, all the while training on a fraction of the traffic you’ll be expected to work going forward.

boom

 

[PushingTin]

Who has been forced to take a 20-80k pay cut? There’s a difference between getting a raise and taking a pay cut. Don’t know your personal situation but my guess is if your not getting CPC pay during this pandemic it’s probably because you haven’t proven you can be a CPC at the facility your at. Even more so at a center, if your not working right now it’s because you can’t work a combined R side. All of which means you are still at best around halfway through your training. So to be frank, theres no guarantee you’d ever see that CPC pay at that facility anyway. I’ve seen people wash out on their last R side. Not trying to be a richard but just being real. Like I said, I get it. We’ve all been there before at some point with the FAA and training. The lack of urgency, communication, direction, you name it. This situation is unique and certainly sucks, and I agree more so for those who are training rather than CPCs. But that doesn’t mean your entitled to money you haven’t earned yet. And it doesn’t mean the rest of us have to be put at increased risk so that you can have to opportunity to earn a raise, all the while training on a fraction of the traffic you’ll be expected to work going forward.

This is kinda the same argument as the scam "1440" who got 8% pay raise over everyone else doing the same job w the same union. They never actually got a pay cut either, were always st pay level commensurate w what level of certification they had achieved...and then all hell broke loose w payscales and imposed work rules. The blanket...make 1400 people exponentially richer than everyone else forever regardless of relative time in agency or certifications, ended up w a whole other class of controller who are now almost all capped.

So I agree w you 100%. STFU whiny entitled trainees. Also, Jane Garvey is an asshole; but I have certainly been gaped worse.

 

[Ui1988]

Then all of a sudden traffic starts coming back and they get that first red sector and go down the shittter. That makes absolutely zero sense.

[/QUOTE]

I think everyone will go down the shitter that first red session with this schedule. I can’t tell if I’m actually busy sometimes now or if I just suck from all the time off.

 

[jdatc]

This is kinda the same argument as the scam "1440"

what? Those people got proper fucked. If you checked out before the white book you made much more money then you did after.

A week difference in checkout back then was worth tens of thousands of dollars at some higher level places that even their later raise with the new bands didn’t equal out.

sometimes you are funny, sometimes I think you smoke crack.

 

[PushingTin]

what? Those people got proper fucked. If you checked out before the white book you made much more money then you did after.

A week difference in checkout back then was worth tens of thousands of dollars at some higher level places that even their later raise with the new bands didn’t equal out.

sometimes you are funny, sometimes I think you smoke crack.

Everybody got fucked.

So if you were in the hiring process for years and got hired 1 day into the whitebook, you deserve tens of thousands less for entire career? The guy who got to academy 2 days before gets 8% and exponentially increasing forever lol.

The comparison would be that no one who attained a certain level of certification didnt get paid. IE all their d-sides, etc. No one actually got a literal "pay cut". Just like the post was arguing about current trainees in the pandemic, which was said well and I agree with . Altho its unique and it sucks. I'm talking about an arbitration award 3 years later that made 1440 controllers extremely richer than everyone else. Everyone "got fucked", but they love playing their favorites and making 2nd, third, 4th, fifth class controllers. Just like extra special CIP for ome facility only!

I am always the same. Sincere, well informed, and trying to remain a free thinker. If I smoke crack then by extension youd be cool with anyone who had their training stopped for pandemic (or IWR 8% scam) get a raise to pay level unattainable to any future trainees, since they "got fucked" and "had a contract" and are special

 

[32andBelow]

Some dude on reddit said their facility is going to 5 on 5 off to start training again.

 

[ClearanceClarence]

Some dude on reddit said their facility is going to 5 on 5 off to start training again.

Not sure how reliable the info over on Reddit is though. Some other dude said last week that he was told the national training hold was being extended to June 15th and that it’d be announced shortly. Obviously that hasn’t happened yet though.

 

[Gusher]

i can see some facilities starting back up and training. Lots of flight schools at some places are still flying a bunch and GA airports that haven’t lost traffic. One plan can’t and doesn’t fit all facilities.

 

[RH316]

i can see some facilities starting back up and training. Lots of flight schools at some places are still flying a bunch and GA airports that haven’t lost traffic. One plan can’t and doesn’t fit all facilities.

Not after they pretty much cut all VFR towers to 8-4 admin hours of Op. and down to Min staffing. It's a shame, but the FAA does not care about those facilities what so ever. I honestly don't foresee training coming back till fall- and that's if we're lucky. I've been hearing MGMT grumblings of the 5 on 5 off/10off ongoing thru Sept 30 unless something drastically changes. It sucks, I know- I'm in training too, but it's silly to train on little to no traffic. That benefits no one.
my $.02

 

[FightingIrish2012]

i can see some facilities starting back up and training. Lots of flight schools at some places are still flying a bunch and GA airports that haven’t lost traffic. One plan can’t and doesn’t fit all facilities.

One plan can't and doesn't fit all facilities is right. But you can be assured you will get a one size fits all plan, just like always. Just look at those facilities with hours cut to 8 hours. It is basically always 8am-4pm. But I bet almost none of those facilities have their peak traffic (as low as that is) between 8am-4pm. Some have a small handful of air carriers that depart early 6-7am and return flights 6-7pm. Or flight school that are moat active after 5pm when people get out of school or work. If the FAA cared at all they would take 20 minutes each facility to look at that and make some 8 hour facilities 6am-2pm to accommodate a early morning "push" or Noon-8pm for afternoon inbounds or flight training. But they didn't just slapped the 8am-4pm hours on almost all of them, maybe it's because the no night differential and prime sup hours will mean no night or CIC pay, as someone else said the FAA does not give a fuck about those facilities.

 

[Shikaka]

If it's not a core 30 then it doesn't matter

 

[ManBearPig]

Not after they pretty much cut all VFR towers to 8-4 admin hours of Op. and down to Min staffing. It's a shame, but the FAA does not care about those facilities what so ever. I honestly don't foresee training coming back till fall- and that's if we're lucky. I've been hearing MGMT grumblings of the 5 on 5 off/10off ongoing thru Sept 30 unless something drastically changes. It sucks, I know- I'm in training too, but it's silly to train on little to no traffic. That benefits no one.
my $.02

Yaaaaasssssssssssssssssss

 

[Bandit117]

You can’t just throw us under the bus for years potentially due to the traffic situation. Our entire pay plan is based upon getting certifications. Natca wouldn’t be representing our side of you union that well if we can’t get our certifications.

You can’t just throw us under the bus for years potentially due to the traffic situation. Our entire pay plan is based upon getting certifications. Natca wouldn’t be representing our side of you union that well if we can’t get our certifications.

At the same time an act of god sort of overrules everything, like when your flight get canceled Bc it’s zero zero vis, or there’s a hurricane etc. it sucks, but you can’t really claim you’re entitled to something that there’s no control over

 

[32andBelow]

At the same time an act of god sort of overrules everything, like when your flight get canceled Bc it’s zero zero vis, or there’s a hurricane etc. it sucks, but you can’t really claim you’re entitled to something that there’s no control over

Sorry ppl want to finish training. If we didn’t have to sit and do nothing for months and months and months when traffic was normal we’d be done by now. Or washed out.

The main thing is natca/faa hasn’t communicated with the members in training about anything or what the game plan is and it’s been 6 weeks now.

 

[CF]

Even if we could train right now I’d have no way of evaluating whether someone could do the job with how traffic is. I’m totally on board with check out on the traffic you see but this is something else entirely.

 

[StealthChain]

So what implications do we think this will have over the next ~5 years? If we assume traffic doesn't get to what it was "pre-covid" for, lets say, another 2 years, do we still allow all those trainees that are current facilities to train or just sit around until traffic gets back up?

If trainees don't get to check out until traffic is back up and it is another 2 years what happens when anyone eligible decides to retire in that time? Is the staffing requirement changed to accommodate for this? Then we are understaffed again in 2 years because now traffic goes back up and we don't have the controllers needed because hiring slowed down?

I haven't been around the FAA long, but have been within the government, so I see what kind of issues can possibly arise from this. I'm early in the training stages and I know this is going to be shitty for me and others in a similar position who thought we would be making good money within 1-2 years. What I'm more curious about is the long term issues this will cause. Staffing will probably get wrecked IMO, which is already an issue as is.