vfr to ifr airfile

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buffalochickenqueefadilla

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Curious what the consensus is on vfr aircraft requesting airborne IFR flight plans.

We had a vfr pop up call today (weather is 10 and clr) and want an ifr for 300 miles out of my airspace. I said I couldn't at the time and it's been a hotly debated thing the last 4 hours.

I've got about 17 years in and it's never been questioned. The .65 mentions "airfile" and "vfr to ifr" only a couple times.

Under clearance items section there is limited guidance.


What do you guys/ gals do and why? Thanks for the wisdom.
 
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I think the note in 4-2-9 would make your case.
NOTE: These procedures do not imply that the processing of airfiles has priority over another ATC duty to be performed.
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pointsixtyfive.com

4-2-9. CLEARANCE ITEMS

The Air Traffic Controller Resource. ATC forums dedicated to sharing information and building an online community.
pointsixtyfive.com pointsixtyfive.com
 
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Interesting answers.

The "clearance items" section you linked is what I've always known and operated by. If I'm talking to 10-12 other aircraft, I don't do it.

Seems to be a "when you can" attitude about it, which works for me. Thanks for the opinions on the topic.
 
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HenryTheAce said:
Cleared to via maintain…

Go ahead and file your flight plan on frequency, souls aboard, pilot contact, color, fuel.

Remarks facility/sector air file

Done.
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Just adding to this answer.
If they are below Mia , ask the pilot if he can maintain his own terrain and obstruction clearance until above [insert MIA altitude.]
 
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In tracons it's standard to just issue the IFR clearance.

In centers there's more hesitation because they want search and rescue information like is filed with a true flight plan.
 
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showtime said:
Just adding to this answer.
If they are below Mia , ask the pilot if he can maintain his own terrain and obstruction clearance until above [insert MIA altitude.]
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Nah, you only need to ask the pilot if he can maintain his own clearance if the pilot tells you or you become aware that they cannot maintain vfr to an appropriate altitude. Just don’t say ‘direct’ or give course guidance below terrain.
 
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Papa_Mike said:
Nah, you only need to ask the pilot if he can maintain his own clearance if the pilot tells you or you become aware that they cannot maintain vfr to an appropriate altitude. Just don’t say ‘direct’ or give course guidance below terrain.
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Ice always just said "leaving (insert mva here) cleared to blank via direct maintain etc.".
But. I've heard so many people argue about this it's stupid. I understand both sides but were here to provide a service. On the other side. It's so fucking simple for them to file a ifr flight plan via foreflight.
 
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TushingPin said:
Ice always just said "leaving (insert mva here) cleared to blank via direct maintain etc.".
But. I've heard so many people argue about this it's stupid. I understand both sides but were here to provide a service. On the other side. It's so fucking simple for them to file a ifr flight plan via foreflight.
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You realize how ridiculous this is right? A bunch of people at my facility do it this way.

Example: MIA is 25 in his area so clear him but predicate his clearance on him climbing above the MIA. So what is he now, still VFR and not IFR until leaving 2500? Okay, now there's a a layer at 2300 you want him to just punch through while "VFR" wink wink?

It's dumb. Just clear the guy.

"If the pilot tells you or you become aware that they cannot maintain vfr to an appropriate altitude" then give the maintain you're own obstruction clearance spiel THEN clear him.
 
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Papa_Mike said:
Nah, you only need to ask the pilot if he can maintain his own clearance if the pilot tells you or you become aware that they cannot maintain vfr to an appropriate altitude. Just don’t say ‘direct’ or give course guidance below terrain.
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By giving him an IFR clearance you are providing Course guidance and “direct”. That is why you have to ensure he can maintain his own terrain and obstruction clearance through MIA or MVA.

But hey I can be wrong. That’s the way I have interpreted it.
 
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showtime said:
By giving him an IFR clearance you are providing Course guidance and “direct”. That is why you have to ensure he can maintain his own terrain and obstruction clearance through MIA or MVA.

But hey I can be wrong. That’s the way I have interpreted it.
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That's correct that if you give them "direct" or a vector then that is specific course guidance.

Clearing them As Filed - that is NOT specific course guidance. They can turn on course any direction etc.
 
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