DCA what is going on

[KiloZulu]

Oh you can’t push traffic like a 10 year veteran controller after only 140 hours of training at the sector despite being safe? Bye and good luck at whatever tower you end up at!

Let's be real, there are no centers that are regularly washing out competent trainees.

 

[GroundClutter]

You just train all the time and you get all the traffic that whatever facility you are at gets. If guys are blowing through hours without seeing enough then raise the target hours. You can not tell me you won’t get better from training every day.

I remember when you were on team Pay Raise when you were in training complaining about delays.

 

[32andBelow]

I remember when you were on team Pay Raise when you were in training complaining about delays.

Yup. Train every day 6 hours. Trainees shouldn’t sit around!

 

[KP-ATC]

Oh you can’t push traffic like a 10 year veteran controller after only 140 hours of training at the sector despite being safe? Bye and good luck at whatever tower you end up at!

That has never been the standard.

 

[Phillytroll69]

I remember when you were on team Pay Raise when you were in training complaining about delays.

When we were working 4/6 r sides for 3 years missing out on 1.6% raises [yes they disappeared when you go up to the base]

 

[Rx]

Handle more lives in one shift than a doctor would their entire career and yet make pennies to their dollar for the rest of our careers. You can only hire high school dropouts with this kinda disparity.

 

[Spiralbox21]

We need a raise like the pilots got. They don't work without us.

 

[Somenewguy]

Handle more lives in one shift than a doctor would their entire career and yet make pennies to their dollar for the rest of our careers. You can only hire high school dropouts with this kinda disparity.

Handle more lives ... like a public bus driver?

People's ego be wild in this career that can be done by anyone without severe anxiety.

 

[Spoony90]

Handle more lives ... like a public bus driver?

People's ego be wild in this career that can be done by anyone without severe anxiety.

TCAS has saved more lives than surgeons.

 

[Rx]

Handle more lives ... like a public bus driver?

People's ego be wild in this career that can be done by anyone without severe anxiety.

So you’re a glorified bus driver?! Not the pilot that depends on you?? Buffoon

Let the traffic lights go out in your town. Let’s see how much that humbles you

 

[Somenewguy]

So you’re a glorified bus driver?! Not the pilot that depends on you?? Buffoon

Let the traffic lights go out in your town. Let’s see how much that humbles you

Traffic lights are super important. So are public bus drivers. So are janitors. So are cashiers at the grocery store. Considered me humbled.

That doesn't make you deserving of the pay a doctor gets. Maybe if the FAA had you pay six figures for your training instead of the other way around.. would that be a better system? Because doctors spend half of an ATC career in training, 8 years of which they pay for out of pocket.

 

[SuckMyATIS]

Handle more lives ... like a public bus driver?

People's ego be wild in this career that can be done by anyone without severe anxiety.

A bus driver lmao they drive a fucking bus millions of people drive everyday without fault. I’m so sick of you stupid fucks degrading this job everyday for no reason. Why would you ever wish to just stay at what you make? The simple fact is we deserve more. The FAA is just pushing dumb fucks through low level facilities and we’re stuck training them. If anyone could do this job then the academy wash out rate wouldn’t be what it is and wash out rates after the fact wouldn’t be as bad. Quick reference to the PPT would show you faculties success rate.

 

[Rx]

Traffic lights are super important. So are public bus drivers. So are janitors. So are cashiers at the grocery store. Considered me humbled.

That doesn't make you deserving of the pay a doctor gets. Maybe if the FAA had you pay six figures for your training instead of the other way around.. would that be a better system? Because doctors spend half of an ATC career in training, 8 years of which they pay for out of pocket.

Doesn’t matter. A president has nuclear codes and still makes less than a fortune 500 CEO. What’s your argument here?!

 

[Somenewguy]

Doesn’t matter. A president has nuclear codes and still makes less than a fortune 500 CEO. What’s your argument here?!

If the last 10 years have proven anything it's that the bar for being a president isn't that high either.

My point is people who have GED level qualifications are demanding M.D. level pay. And using the justification that you "handle more lives" than a doctor is preposterous when discussing pay disparity. Do you want to fight for more pay? Awesome, let's do that together. But don't pretend air traffic controllers are some special breed, unless you mean arrogant toddlers.

 

[Rx]

If the last 10 years have proven anything it's that the bar for being a president isn't that high either.

My point is people who have GED level qualifications are demanding M.D. level pay. And using the justification that you "handle more lives" than a doctor is preposterous when discussing pay disparity. Do you want to fight for more pay? Awesome, let's do that together. But don't pretend air traffic controllers are some special breed, unless you mean arrogant toddlers.

You pay the skill, not education level. Education is a common denominator when it comes to filtration/weeding talent out. Let me guess, you’re one of the brilliant minds against athletes getting paid deservedly for their talents based on ticket sales/tv rights?! College athletes still eating breadcrumbs and just be thankful they’ve got textbooks. Seriously, how backwards are you boomer?

 

[FlightOfTheShortGuy]

Handle more lives in one shift than a doctor would their entire career and yet make pennies to their dollar for the rest of our careers. You can only hire high school dropouts with this kinda disparity.

Literally worked a 10pm to midnight portion of my shift last night and moved probably 4500 people. Yet I have to work 400 hours of OT to make what a doctor makes with no OT. We have to do better than this. I am not even asking to make 600k a year but pay me what I’m worth. Pay me for the severity of this job. Pay me for the fact that my career is shorter than others because the mental capabilities drop off earlier than every other career. Pay me to truly give a shit about this career. So many times I think “I don’t get paid enough to give as much of a fuck anymore”. Fix this immediately.

 

[Somenewguy]

Literally worked a 10pm to midnight portion of my shift last night and moved probably 4500 people. Yet I have to work 400 hours of OT to make what a doctor makes with no OT. We have to do better than this. I am not even asking to make 600k a year but pay me what I’m worth. Pay me for the severity of this job. Pay me for the fact that my career is shorter than others because the mental capabilities drop off earlier than every other career. Pay me to truly give a shit about this career. So many times I think “I don’t get paid enough to give as much of a fuck anymore”. Fix this immediately.

The fact that you can make as much as a doctor at all with no college degree OR paid training is impressive. And there's a pension. Doctors go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt, and maintain their own liability insurance. Your job training is paid for. You get paid when you're on break and i know lots of people who spend about half of their already short careers doing just that. Most doctors get paid for seeing patients only. If being a doctor sounds so awesome, just go do that instead, there's nothing stopping you.

Pro athletes are another ridiculous comparison, do you really think ATCers are that special? You think every ATCer is some savant who has put aside his career of nuclear astro physics to get into public service? Maybe your facility is super special but the ones I've worked at are staffed by people who have a hard time remembering when they're scheduled to work. They arent doing two a days in the texas heat for a decade to make it as a pro footballer. What comparison are you trying to make? The FAA can and does recruit random high schoolers, Uber drivers, and grocery baggers to do this job and the ones who aren't mentally handicapped do fine.

Should we get raises? I'm all for it, but you guys are so deluded that you're living on a different planet.

 

[Rx]

The fact that you can make as much as a doctor at all with no college degree OR paid training is impressive. And there's a pension. Doctors go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt, and maintain their own liability insurance. Your job training is paid for. You get paid when you're on break and i know lots of people who spend about half of their already short careers doing just that. Most doctors get paid for seeing patients only. If being a doctor sounds so awesome, just go do that instead, there's nothing stopping you.

Pro athletes are another ridiculous comparison, do you really think ATCers are that special? You think every ATCer is some savant who has put aside his career of nuclear astro physics to get into public service? Maybe your facility is super special but the ones I've worked at are staffed by people who have a hard time remembering when they're scheduled to work. They arent doing two a days in the texas heat for a decade to make it as a pro footballer. What comparison are you trying to make? The FAA can and does recruit random high schoolers, Uber drivers, and grocery baggers to do this job and the ones who aren't mentally handicapped do fine.

Should we get raises? I'm all for it, but you guys are so deluded that you're living on a different planet.

Man get off your moral high horse. Less than 1% of the population gets to do this job. That alone is a tell-tale sign of how unique your skillset is. We’re still reeling from the staffing crisis from OVER 30 years ago. Do the math and stop playing the Nelson Mandela of careers. This shit IS hard and NOT everyone can do it.

The fact that you can make as much as a doctor at all with no college degree OR paid training is impressive. And there's a pension. Doctors go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt, and maintain their own liability insurance. Your job training is paid for. You get paid when you're on break and i know lots of people who spend about half of their already short careers doing just that. Most doctors get paid for seeing patients only. If being a doctor sounds so awesome, just go do that instead, there's nothing stopping you.

Pro athletes are another ridiculous comparison, do you really think ATCers are that special? You think every ATCer is some savant who has put aside his career of nuclear astro physics to get into public service? Maybe your facility is super special but the ones I've worked at are staffed by people who have a hard time remembering when they're scheduled to work. They arent doing two a days in the texas heat for a decade to make it as a pro footballer. What comparison are you trying to make? The FAA can and does recruit random high schoolers, Uber drivers, and grocery baggers to do this job and the ones who aren't mentally handicapped do fine.

Should we get raises? I'm all for it, but you guys are so deluded that you're living on a different planet.

You also just literally described your measuring sample/size (low level facility). There’s levels to this. Go to any 10/11/12 in the summer with current travel demand and traffic levels and I promise you TCAS will be separating planes by 100 feet, if lucky.

And unlike you, I don’t look down on any level. CTAF isn’t going to save anyone’s life when everyone in the pattern’s looking out for themselves. I trained as a pilot 12 years ago at non-towered and towered airports. I can tell you what was safer.

 

[the inquirer]

Talking about inherent skills: relative of mine is a real estate agent with only HS diploma; another relative a manager at a bank with only a HS diploma (has coworkers who are financial advisors with only a HS diploma bringing in 400k/year). I’m at a 12. Everyone I just listed makes more. We should weed out more people and make this career as prestigious as it was. I’d rather work short than with someone I don’t trust.

 

[PooseMaGoose]

Talking about inherent skills: relative of mine is a real estate agent with only HS diploma; another relative a manager at a bank with only a HS diploma (has coworkers who are financial advisors with only a HS diploma bringing in 400k/year). I’m at a 12. Everyone I just listed makes more. We should weed out more people and make this career as prestigious as it was. I’d rather work short than with someone I don’t trust.

That’s not very “inclusive” and “diverse” of you…. Tisk tisk.