Actual Pay Increase

[AB19]

Exactly.

But most people only want to go to a select few locations. Not to mention atrocious training and staffing doesn’t make those appealing.

Idk man I wish I applied to C90 about two years before I actually did

 

[Move78]

I think most people would trade being able to get to where they wanna go over pay. Obviously you want both, but if it were one or the other I’d keep my pay and go where I want.

Everyone’s different

Exactly.

But most people only want to go to a select few locations. Not to mention atrocious training and staffing doesn’t make those appealing.

Regardless of the system, not everyone can work at those few locations

 

[Nothanks]

No, the people who were hired in the early 2000s knew exactly what facility they were going to before they accepted the TOL. This new way of not knowing where you're going until the day you graduate the academy is insane. The ERR process was also very different pre- NCEPT. Yea, some places would give you a 2 year release date but at least you had a light at the end of the tunnel. Now it's a lottery and none of your qualifications or time in the agency matter.

The hiring process now has way more options than ever before. Even if you knew where you were going you still had to pass the academy before getting a place to live. I bet if you polled people they would chose the new current system. The options are crazy they are getting.

Ncept is the boogeyman. It’s the ONLY reason anyone is moving in the nas currently. The agency wouldn’t let anyone leave anywhere, why don’t people get that?


And again, every thread goes back to the same circle conversation

 

[Eve]

The hiring process now has way more options than ever before. Even if you knew where you were going you still had to pass the academy before getting a place to live. I bet if you polled people they would chose the new current system. The options are crazy they are getting.

Ncept is the boogeyman. It’s the ONLY reason anyone is moving in the nas currently. The agency wouldn’t let anyone leave anywhere, why don’t people get that?


And again, every thread goes back to the same circle conversation

I lived here prior to being in the FAA, 5 miles away from the airport. If I wasn't offered a job at this airport I wouldn't have signed the TOL.Today, 15 years later, I live 5 miles away from that same airport. Almost everyone I went through the academy with lived near their airport or very close so it was within the same state and not a crazy move. None of us did cross country moves to places we didn't want to go. Leaving your home, not knowing where you'll end up until the final day is not a great option no matter how you try to spin it.

 

[Nothanks]

I lived here prior to being in the FAA, 5 miles away from the airport. If I wasn't offered a job at this airport I wouldn't have signed the TOL.Today, 15 years later, I live 5 miles away from that same airport. Almost everyone I went through the academy with lived near their airport or very close so it was within the same state and not a crazy move. None of us did cross country moves to places we didn't want to go. Leaving your home, not knowing where you'll end up until the final day is not a great option no matter how you try to spin it.

I’m not spinning it. People bitched about the FAA’s stupid placement process, and it got changed for the better recently

 

[hpwjuicebox]

I’m not spinning it. People bitched about the FAA’s stupid placement process, and it got changed for the better recently

That’s great and I’m glad for the new people to have a lot more options and hopefully not put in paperwork the second they check out. Hopefully the newest generation ends up at places they want to be forever at least on the Z side.

 

[Eve]

I’m not spinning it. People bitched about the FAA’s stupid placement process, and it got changed for the better recently

It might be better now than it was 5 years ago but if they can give them a huge list on the day of graduation why can't they give them a huge list before they get the TOL and can pick a place before they get to the academy so they know where they're going to end up with enough time to plan a big move?

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

What happens when the two or three allotted trainees to a facility per year all fail the Academy? Then that facility gets nobody new for an entire year? Placement has always been at the discretion of the Agency and by getting your list at the end of class and forcing some people to specific locations the vast majority of seven and below facilities get new people as their training program allows.

It might be better now than it was 5 years ago but if they can give them a huge list on the day of graduation why can't they give them a huge list before they get the TOL and can pick a place before they get to the academy so they know where they're going to end up with enough time to plan a big move?

 

[Eve]

What happens when the two or three allotted trainees to a facility per year all fail the Academy? Then that facility gets nobody new for an entire year? Placement has always been at the discretion of the Agency and by getting your list at the end of class and forcing some people to specific locations the vast majority of seven and below facilities get new people as their training program allows.

I don't know about other facilities but in the last 5 years or so we have averaged about 4 trainees each year which used to show up all at the same time. This year has been different. We have 6 on board right now and more in the pipeline. They have really ramped up the prior experience hires which is where most of our trainees have come from. Those guys get a facility months in advance, why can't the academy folks get one too? One of our previous experience people turned down 7 sets of lists until he got one with this facility on it. Because this is where he wants to be long term.

by getting your list at the end of class and forcing some people to specific locations the vast majority of seven and below facilities get new people as their training program allows.

We honestly have too many trainees right now but it is what it is. With so many people released by the end of the year this facility is going to be going into January with 5 cics and 4 ojtis out of a probable 11 cpcs if all the guys currently training end up certifying by the end of the year. So it's not about the training program it's about ncept and their weird math thinking we will have great staffing when really it is a huge dumpster fire.

But also, academy grads are getting paid peanuts compared to the prior ex people coming in on the D3 scale and then throw a cross country move and try to find housing and possibly childcare within days of graduating. Academy grads have it rough and people need to stop acting like they're being handed a silver platter with these great lists on the day of graduation.

 

[Wizard]

I think retirement pay should be the same for everyone. No matter what level facility.
Let’s say, $150k a year. Base it off that. It’s not fair to the one that got stuck in NCEPT black holes to not have the same opportunities as others.
#Equality

Or the people who got tower out of the academy and sent to a level 5 black hole while Jimmy got enroute and a level 12

Yeah except most level 4's are located in absolute shit hole places. I can't imagine living in a place like beaumont or flint, no matter how much I made.

You forgot to mention level 4s are really the place to be if you want to actually get anywhere

 

[ajmezz]

You forgot to mention level 4s are really the place to be if you want to actually get anywhere

True in the current system. The comment I was replying to said if they paid all controllers the same they’d go sit at a 4.

 

[GulfCharlie]

True in the current system. The comment I was replying to said if they paid all controllers the same they’d go sit at a 4.

I'll make that call to ADW

 

[Nothanks]

We honestly have too many trainees right now but it is what it is. With so many people released by the end of the year this facility is going to be going into January with 5 cics and 4 ojtis out of a probable 11 cpcs if all the guys currently training end up certifying by the end of the year. So it's not about the training program it's about ncept and their weird math thinking we will have great staffing when really it is a huge dumpster fire.

But also, academy grads are getting paid peanuts compared to the prior ex people coming in on the D3 scale and then throw a cross country move and try to find housing and possibly childcare within days of graduating. Academy grads have it rough and people need to stop acting like they're being handed a silver platter with these great lists on the day of graduation.

Wait you release too many people from your facility due to ncept ?🤔

 

[AB19]

Wait you release too many people from your facility due to ncept ?🤔

It's a hard life at Potomacs feeder tower

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

But also, academy grads are getting paid peanuts compared to the prior ex people coming in on the D3 scale and then throw a cross country move and try to find housing and possibly childcare within days of graduating. Academy grads have it rough and people need to stop acting like they're being handed a silver platter with these great lists on the day of graduation.

This really was a hidden perk of CTI school. Applicants were fresh out of college, willing to move anywhere, and generally weren't married with kids so moving across the country was exponentially easier. The older the applicant the more roots and the more difficult moving can be. Half sarcastically but perhaps we should cap the hiring age at 25.

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

What does history say could be possible? Forget what we WANT as far as a raise in this discussion. What does history show as the max raise we have seen to lean on in negotiation to match/exceed?

See my post in a different thread responding to an almost identical question from EightTwoSierra .

History, OPM, and our CBA all say bonuses (up to 25%), one-off raises (up to 25%), and adjustments to the yearly 1.6% raise are all EASILY possible.

The better question is: is NATCA capable/willing to fight for it?

 

[Kramer]

Changes to pay have been made without a new contract. Extra incentives for N90 and the newer 20% for OJT.

Why can't natca fight to increase CIC pay just like they did OJT? Oversight is a management function and 10% is a joke.

What about revamping the CIP program and increasing it so those that got zero now get 5% and you then add 5% to those already getting CIP? When was the last time the CIP program was updated?

Let's be real raising the cap isn't gonna happen anytime soon.

If both sides agree do they really need to wait until contract negotiations?

How about bonuses attached to the amount of OT you work? Hit 100 hours get 2% bonus. Hit 200 hours get another 2%.

What if half of the CPCs stopped working OT? The agency would feel the hurt. But no, many of us keep working because they need the money or they are scared of "sick leave" letters.

 

[Spoony90]

Wait you release too many people from your facility due to ncept ?🤔

Right? My facility hasn’t released anyone since NCEPT.

 

[Eve]

Wait you release too many people from your facility due to ncept ?🤔

This year has been crazy.

It's a hard life at Potomacs feeder tower

We haven't sent anyone to PCT. The truth of the matter is that we have maintained a cat 1 category each ncept panel because no one has left yet and there are a bunch of trainees. But 5 people are leaving between now and November and another one possibly in December if they get picked up on this next panel. Almost all of the experienced people will be gone, leaving the facility with an average 2 years of experience amongst the crew with the highest at 5 and the rest 2 or less. I'm sure my facility is not unique in this situation this year, either.

What if half of the CPCs stopped working OT? The agency would feel the hurt. But no, many of us keep working because they need the money or they are scared of "sick leave" letters.

That's essentially what is going to happen with the 10/12 hour rule plus the 2 day weekend requirement after 2 OTs. It will be interesting to see how it plays out next year.

 

[32andBelow]

That's essentially what is going to happen with the 10/12 hour rule plus the 2 day weekend requirement after 2 OTs. It will be interesting to see how it plays out next year.

It’s not a requirement you just can’t be forced 3 in a row. You’ll be amazed when top complainers keep working cus they don’t want a pay cut.