Actual Pay Increase

[32andBelow]

~20% of lvl 11s already hit the cap also. A 25% raise would have an absurd number of controllers hitting the cap, which shows how important addressing the cap is to properly handle pay increases. 12s with any significant locality and 11s with high locality would literally be at the cap almost as soon as they hit CPC and then be stuck there the rest of their careers.

While you are right we shouldn’t put negotiations on hold while we work on the cap. If the cap is fixed afterwards then everyone who should be above it should get moved at that time.

 

[blarg]

While you are right we shouldn’t put negotiations on hold while we work on the cap. If the cap is fixed afterwards then everyone who should be above it should get moved at that time.

While I never said anything should be put on hold, the longer it is before the cap is fixed the more "expensive" it is to implement the fix (because more people being above the cap means more money to pay them properly after it is gone, and all that money all seen as one big expense when passing a bill), making it harder and harder to get passed.

 

[32andBelow]

While I never said anything should be put on hold, the longer it is before the cap is fixed the more "expensive" it is to implement the fix (because more people being above the cap means more money to pay them properly after it is gone, and all that money all seen as one big expense when passing a bill), making it harder and harder to get passed.

Yah but we already have the right to negotiate our contract. Raising the cap would be getting a bill through. Should have been done in the reauth instead of working on the FAAs hiring

 

[Spoony90]

There should be a system in place that gives you a raise if you been shafted (with no hawk tuah, just rammed bone dry) by NCEPT.
Truly is unfair to be terminally stuck for your whole
Career in some place you don’t want to be at

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

Are you at the bottom of the pay band? From what I can see, the pay band cap of a lvl 12 + Rest of US locality is 202k. So every single 12 in the NAS would hit the cap before reaching the top of their pay bands with a 25% raise. Most would cap out like halfway through or less or something stupid.

my salary is $163000, our locality is 23% so our CPCs cap at $213,000. $163,000 x 1.25 = $203,750.

 

[VikingsFan85]

Wasn't there a 20% - ish Raise in 1999 when they negotiated the new pay table changes?

 

[32andBelow]

I’d think of more as them renegotiating all the pay tables instead of an across the board percentage raise. Might mean some people get bigger raises (if they can delete some levels which I hope they do)

 

[VikingsFan85]

"Under the new pay system, most controllers’ salaries increased substantially. For example, before the October 1998 agreement, controllers at the top three levels of Air Traffic facilities had a base salary range of $66,100 to $86,000. As of January 2001, those controllers had a base salary range of $81,700 to $126,400."
Yea the top of the band saw over a 40% increase in pay by moving from the GS to the new Air Traffic Pay Tables in 1998. *This is over the course of 3 years... Reference is DOT OIG
Here is the link: https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/files/av2001064.pdf

So yes, an appropriate raise is possible, but unlikely in my opinion.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

"Under the new pay system, most controllers’ salaries increased substantially. For example, before the October 1998 agreement, controllers at the top three levels of Air Traffic facilities had a base salary range of $66,100 to $86,000. As of January 2001, those controllers had a base salary range of $81,700 to $126,400."
Yea the top of the band saw over a 40% increase in pay by moving from the GS to the new Air Traffic Pay Tables in 1998. *This is over the course of 3 years... Reference is DOT OIG
Here is the link: https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/files/av2001064.pdf

So yes, an appropriate raise is possible, but unlikely in my opinion.

Coming out of the white book there was a similar roughly 30% raise, but that was spread out over three years too.

That’s the other thing that sucks. Even if it all went perfect and we got a 24% raise for example. I guarantee 2026 would be the negation year, 2027 would be the mediation and arbitration year, and 2028-29-30 would be 8% increases years to grant the 24%.

So realistically 2030 is where I think we would see the total results of a big raise, not 2026.

 

[Spoony90]

I think retirement pay should be the same for everyone. No matter what level facility.
Let’s say, $150k a year. Base it off that. It’s not fair to the one that got stuck in NCEPT black holes to not have the same opportunities as others.
#Equality

 

[VikingsFan85]

Coming out of the white book there was a similar roughly 30% raise, but that was spread out over three years too.

That’s the other thing that sucks. Even if it all went perfect and we got a 24% raise for example. I guarantee 2026 would be the negation year, 2027 would be the mediation and arbitration year, and 2028-29-30 would be 8% increases years to grant the 24%.

So realistically 2030 is where I think we would see the total results of a big raise, not 2026.

The real issue is the lack of any sort of a concerted effort. We saw inflation almost go to hyper-inflation territory, airlines get absolute MASSIVE raises, NATCA/FAA was just crickets, and 4.5% across the board was applauded. How do we have all these treasurers and finance positions in NATCA and no one is raising the alarm on our actual purchasing power as US Citizens/highly trained professionals? Does no one at the top understand inflation or believe we should be attempting to keep up with it? In general we should lag behind a little bit but comparatively, we have been absolutely left in the dust in our industry with regards to wages.

 

[Whiskey Charlie]

I think retirement pay should be the same for everyone. No matter what level facility.
Let’s say, $150k a year. Base it off that. It’s not fair to the one that got stuck in NCEPT black holes to not have the same opportunities as others.
#Equality

You might as well pay all ATC the same then now. It’s not a good idea.

 

[Redacted]

Most controllers would be fine if they hit the congressional cap earlier in their career.

Lifetime earnings would skyrocket.

 

[Spoony90]

You might as well pay all ATC the same then now. It’s not a good idea.

I’m for it. It’s not fair for the ones stuck in black holes their whole career that can never get out.

 

[Whiskey Charlie]

I’m for it. It’s not fair for the ones stuck in black holes their whole career that can never get out.

I would definitely go to some level 4 tower only. Screw working at a 5+ facility. More work isn’t worth anything at that point. As I said before, not a good idea.

 

[Nothanks]

Coming out of the white book there was a similar roughly 30% raise, but that was spread out over three years too.

That’s the other thing that sucks. Even if it all went perfect and we got a 24% raise for example. I guarantee 2026 would be the negation year, 2027 would be the mediation and arbitration year, and 2028-29-30 would be 8% increases years to grant the 24%.

So realistically 2030 is where I think we would see the total results of a big raise, not 2026.

Best answer I’ve seen on here in a while

 

[Spoony90]

I would definitely go to some level 4 tower only. Screw working at a 5+ facility. More work isn’t worth anything at that point. As I said before, not a good idea.

That’s your choice. It’s just not fair for people that are stuck their whole career to not be able to make more money for their family. For NCEPT to control that is trash

 

[blarg]

my salary is $163000, our locality is 23% so our CPCs cap at $213,000. $163,000 x 1.25 = $203,750.

lvl 12 pay band without locality is $128,035-$172,847. 25% raise would make that. $160,044-$216,059. With 23% locality on top of that, your pay band would be $196,854-$265,753. You'd only make it 1/3 of the way in to your pay band before capping out.

Coming out of the white book there was a similar roughly 30% raise, but that was spread out over three years too.

Eh, that's a bit of a mischaracterization imo. It wasn't really a raise so much as getting back to even less than where we would've been if they hadn't imposed new paybands on us.

 

[Whiskey Charlie]

That’s your choice. It’s just not fair for people that are stuck their whole career to not be able to make more money for their family. For NCEPT to control that is trash

I agree it’s not worth it for black hole facilities. There is a way out though. A quick course in data analytics will pay 100-100k after about 3-5 years experience with a better schedule and pay. Quite a few other jobs can do that as well.

For the record, I’m not one that advocates for others to find a new job as we should be getting paid more across the board. However same pay for all ATC is not the solution.

You also all agreed to move anywhere in the continuous states when you signed up.. soooo…..

 

[ATC Zero]

I agree it’s not worth it for black hole facilities. There is a way out though. A quick course in data analytics will pay 100-100k after about 3-5 years experience with a better schedule and pay. Quite a few other jobs can do that as well.

For the record, I’m not one that advocates for others to find a new job as we should be getting paid more across the board. However same pay for all ATC is not the solution.

You also all agreed to move anywhere in the continuous states when you signed up.. soooo…..

Cu Nt.