1st day Mids

[Atc12345]

My facility has a few different lines.. but the mid line is a day mid on the first day, with the day being 0430-1030. The missed 2 hrs on that shift are made up on two other mids that week.

I thought you couldn’t start earlier than 530 if you’re working the mid? Is that another change that I missed?

 

[32andBelow]

I thought you couldn’t start earlier than 530 if you’re working the mid? Is that another change that I missed?

That’s to have less than 9 hours off. Now with 12 hours off it’s ok

 

[CaptainObvious]

ATM is telling us to get wrecked on the schedule we laid out. Neither side will budge so negotiations are going as expected.

I’m curious how many 24/7 facilities are still negotiating.

We are

 

[CoffeeIV]

I thought you couldn’t start earlier than 530 if you’re working the mid? Is that another change that I missed?

2-6-7
10. A 0530L start time or later is required when working an eight ( 8 ) hour day shift prior to an eight ( 8 ) hour midnight shift. Employees may not flex to an earlier start time than 0530L.


So yeah, I don't know how theyre going in at 0430. That's wrong.

 

[eltors0]

2-6-7
10. A 0530L start time or later is required when working an eight ( 8 ) hour day shift prior to an eight ( 8 ) hour midnight shift. Employees may not flex to an earlier start time than 0530L.


So yeah, I don't know how theyre going in at 0430. That's wrong.

They are not working an 8 hour shift first is how. And yeah, it’s wrong because it shouldn’t be a thing at all. The rattler needs to go away.

 

[Somenewguy]

2-6-7
10. A 0530L start time or later is required when working an eight ( 8 ) hour day shift prior to an eight ( 8 ) hour midnight shift. Employees may not flex to an earlier start time than 0530L.


So yeah, I don't know how theyre going in at 0430. That's wrong.

Stupid technicality but it's a 6 hour day shift. I think whoever wrote that didn't really consider the stupidity being witnessed in redoing the schedules for 2024. It assumes that everyone is working 5 shifts a week and that they're all 8 hours.

According to the rule you posted you could work a 9 hour day shift prior to an 8 hour midnight shift and ignore the rule entirely.

 

[CoffeeIV]

I suppose so.

I just find it amusing that people whined so much about sleep then try to come in at 4am. If the agency wants a reason to not allow it, it's night differential. Why pay people more money to come in doing nothing.

 

[eltors0]

Stupid technicality but it's a 6 hour day shift. I think whoever wrote that didn't really consider the stupidity being witnessed in redoing the schedules for 2024. It assumes that everyone is working 5 shifts a week and that they're all 8 hours.

According to the rule you posted you could work a 9 hour day shift prior to an 8 hour midnight shift and ignore the rule entirely.

The only instance of that being a possibility would be a 2am-11am followed by a 11pm-7am. That sounds terrible.

 

[32andBelow]

2-6-7
10. A 0530L start time or later is required when working an eight ( 8 ) hour day shift prior to an eight ( 8 ) hour midnight shift. Employees may not flex to an earlier start time than 0530L.


So yeah, I don't know how theyre going in at 0430. That's wrong.

Is this the 7210? It’s going to have to be revised anyways. Cus you can’t do a 6 hour shift currently

 

[ManBearPig]

Is this the 7210? It’s going to have to be revised anyways. Cus you can’t do a 6 hour shift currently

The MOU supercedes the order.

 

[RB]

That’s horrendous why are people agreeing to that

They got scooped up pretty quick tbh by pretty high seniority people.. including the #1. I would have taken one if it made it all the way to me.

 

[Mike Kilo]

They got scooped up pretty quick tbh by pretty high seniority people.. including the #1. I would have taken one if it made it all the way to me.

Sounds a lot better than half the ideas places are pushing to me.

 

[+TSRA]

The MOU supercedes the order.

An MOU CANNOT supercede an order. The order gives you the framework for your MOU. That's like saying an SOP says it's OK to do something when the .65 says it's not.

Theses shitty MOUs are written by younger people who have no experience. It's the unions fault for not teaching them nor having the good resources available to guide them.

If I was at BHM tower, I'd be in the REPs face telling them to step down ASAP.

 

[32andBelow]

They are not working an 8 hour shift first is how. And yeah, it’s wrong because it shouldn’t be a thing at all. The rattler needs to go away.

It’s going away after 2025 bid year. Idk why some people are fighting to run it back 1 last time

 

[KP-ATC]

That’s to have less than 9 hours off. Now with 12 hours off it’s ok

That's fucked up, even if technically legal

 

[32andBelow]

That's fucked up, even if technically legal

I think the 530 thing was an old fatigue rule 😬😬

 

[ManBearPig]

An MOU CANNOT supercede an order. The order gives you the framework for your MOU. That's like saying an SOP says it's OK to do something when the .65 says it's not.

Theses shitty MOUs are written by younger people who have no experience. It's the unions fault for not teaching them nor having the good resources available to guide them.

If I was at BHM tower, I'd be in the REPs face telling them to step down ASAP.

Sorry, that was a poor word. That part of the MOU was a temporary modification to the contract. The rest is a modification to the order.

 

[Sassyquatch]

We are

We're still negotiating too. Doesn't even look like we're close to agreeing to anything either.

NATCA is also now proposing straight mid lines every 5 weeks since that's what management proposed and is better for fatigue. They also don't want us biding leave during our mid weeks but I feel like as soon as someone goes on PPL how are they going to make that work?

 

[32andBelow]

I’m starting to think maybe yearly bidding needs to go away. Airlines do monthly which is too much but maybe quarterly makes sense. Even on current rattler it’s so hard to cover the PPL and people leaving for large parts of the year

 

[ABACUS]

I’m starting to think maybe yearly bidding needs to go away. Airlines do monthly which is too much but maybe quarterly makes sense. Even on current rattler it’s so hard to cover the PPL and people leaving for large parts of the year

So because of the Agency’s inability to staff, we should bid quarterly to cover for them?