Midair Collision DCA

ManBearPig said:
It takes a minute to set up some of these TV spots.
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While true we’ve seen other ex controllers and ex pilots making statements since the night of the incident. I’m sure any news agency would have been happy to get the first Natca interview. We missed the time when it would be most impactful. Now there is a new accident to talk about we won’t be getting nearly the public outreach as when it was first breaking. Nick should have been in DC as fast possible dealing with the controllers at DCA and the news.
 
Mike Kilo said:
While true we’ve seen other ex controllers and ex pilots making statements since the night of the incident. I’m sure any news agency would have been happy to get the first Natca interview. We missed the time when it would be most impactful. Now there is a new accident to talk about we won’t be getting nearly the public outreach as when it was first breaking. Nick should have been in DC as fast possible dealing with the controllers at DCA and the news.
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The entire NEB was already in Chicago so it made more logical and fiscal sense to meet with all of the elected leaders to develop a strategy in person before separating. My understanding is Nick and the Eastern Region RVP were both up past 2am making sure the DCA members were getting taken care of and protected. He literally cannot be in two different places at the same time.
 
Phanatical said:
The entire NEB was already in Chicago so it made more logical and fiscal sense to meet with all of the elected leaders to develop a strategy in person before separating. My understanding is Nick and the Eastern Region RVP were both up past 2am making sure the DCA members were getting taken care of and protected. He literally cannot be in two different places at the same time.
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You can cancel the plinko meeting early. It’s ok.
 
Flashy Vectors said:
This is what happens when shitty controllers become supervisors. Splitting open dead positions just lead to workplace distractions and weak controllers. If you work dead positions 90% of the time god help us when you don’t have any currency working busy traffic. TOP to pad allocation of resources is a detriment to the flying public when it reduces the controllers skill level over the long term. ATC doesn’t get paid for the 5 hours of dead time they get paid for the 3 hours that they run radars/grounds/locals at a pace and complexity that the NAS demands. I don’t advocate for staffing the break room but the check this box so I don’t have to think as a supervisor is horseshit.
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Would you have preferred that HELO position open? It was probably SOP to have it combine at this time however just because things have been this way for years, does not mean we shouldn’t reconsider how we staff our operations.

Extra eyes could have saved lives but you’d rather argue a 5th break/protime is more important or supervisor horseshit, its just common sense.

Please tell me when there are 3 positions open and 5, 6, 7 on break, what are you vacating for then?

Raise when? said:
Why am I not surprised you struggled badly in training?

Should’ve washed your stupid ass
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Struggled, I certified at 6 different facilities?
 
32andBelow said:
You aren’t even entitled your lunch break. If you don’t get a break they just have to pay you a missed meal which is only 15 minutes of pay.
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I thought it was technically 30 minutes of FLSA Premium or "overtime", but just the 50% part. I'm probably being pedantic as it's about the same amount of pay.
 
+TSRA said:
Since you appear to be acting as management, you know what else sucks? Training for over 5 hours a shift! At that point, I'm NOT actually working traffic, I'm being a mind reader trying to figure what that person is doing and what they are going to do next. How am I supposed to keep my own skills sharp during peak traffic volumes when you call me every RDO for OT?

Share that with whoever you're stroking for your next promotion that avoids traffic.
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I would demand a pro-day once a week and set my breaks up to work busy pushes on that day.

Your trainee can always train with someone else 1 day a week or they could get protime the same day as you.

Dont get me wrong, management 100% to blame for our staffing crisis. Everyone is under paid and overworked.
 
X-Ray Lima said:
No speculating, just talking in general terms. It’s simple don’t staff the break room when you can open up positions.

Your paid to work, not to be on break 5 hours a shift!
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We get paid for what we CAN do, not necessarily what we do at any one time.

There's a lot of standard stuff that any moron can do but the times that involve all the right qualities, plus innate talent & creativity that only certain minds can produce, that's when it counts. Even at slower facilities you never know when that time will be, therefore it's critical to have those in place who that will shine when needed; that's why controllers are paid for what's possible. That's also why we need to be adjusted for the rampant inflation.

A pediatric neurosurgeon doesn't have operate every single day, but when he's called in with no notice to save a life he better damn well do it right.
 
bomber996 said:
I thought it was technically 30 minutes of FLSA Premium or "overtime", but just the 50% part. I'm probably being pedantic as it's about the same amount of pay.
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Section 4. First priority for breaks shall be given to providing a reasonable amount of time away from the position of operation for meals. In the event the employee is required to work during the fourth (4th) hour through the sixth (6th) hour of his/her shift without a minimum thirty (30) minute uninterrupted meal break, he/she shall be compensated at the rate of fifty percent (50%) of one-half of the applicable hourly rate of Base Pay. If the employee requests and receives the meal break during some other period, he/she will not be eligible for the missed meal premium pay.
 
Raise when? said:
Your post history seems to tell a different story 😂tI understand, Trust me, I have changed my turn over years and would have been saying the same as most of you are now.
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I understand, trust me. I have changed my tune over the years and would have been saying the same as most of you.

We have to ask ourselves, would we have preferred that HELO position opened during this event, even though it is the norm to have it combined during this time?
CoffeeIV said:
I like how someone being on break is what people are harping on and not the helicopter pilot and copilot that said they would maintain visual and pass behind traffic but didnt.
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Attention to detail, LC was busy. Maybe if that HELO position was open, they would have noticed the HELO off course and higher then he should have been or consider they might have the wrong aircraft insight.
 
X-Ray Lima said:
Would you have preferred that HELO position open? It was probably SOP to have it combine at this time however just because things have been this way for years, does not mean we shouldn’t reconsider how we staff our operations.

Extra eyes could have saved lives but you’d rather argue a 5th break/protime is more important or supervisor horseshit, its just common sense.

Please tell me when there are 3 positions open and 5, 6, 7 on break, what are you vacating for then?
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Fuck that helo position if your flying through my final I want to talk to the helo. Local assist, trackers are all jokes of a position. Supervisors should be the ones overseeing busy positions and MANAGING the area/tower like they get paid to do. We all know the supes that hide behind a computer and the ones that are actively walking around the area/cab overseeing the ops. Splitting positions to not have people on break because you’re scared to manage the area/cab is BULLSHIT. Team concept not fuck over people to get a gold star in a PA because it’s easy to track on paper.
 
X-Ray Lima said:
Would you have preferred that HELO position open? It was probably SOP to have it combine at this time however just because things have been this way for years, does not mean we shouldn’t reconsider how we staff our operations.

Extra eyes could have saved lives but you’d rather argue a 5th break/protime is more important or supervisor horseshit, its just common sense.

Please tell me when there are 3 positions open and 5, 6, 7 on break, what are you vacating for then?
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If you listened to the NTSB report tonight they had five positions open. Local, local assist, ground, clearance delivery, and OS.

Why they opted for local assist instead of splitting the helo position, I don't know. I don't know what the standard operating procedure is, I've never worked there.
 
How many times has a coworker brought something to your attention that made you sick to your stomach because you knew without their observation, you might have fucked up. Team concept, right? Say that person was not there(on break) to save your ass? We have all been in these situations and appreciate those moments.

GulfBravoPapa said:
If you listened to the NTSB report tonight they had five positions open. Local, local assist, ground, clearance delivery, and OS.

Why they opted for local assist instead of splitting the helo position, I don't know. I don't know what the standard operating procedure is, I've never worked there.
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It was most likely business as usually. All these years with no issues, why change to make it safer?

We hate change, especially if it impacts our break rotation.
 
X-Ray Lima said:
How many times has a coworker brought something to your attention that made you sick to your stomach because you knew without their observation, you might have fucked up. Team concept, right? Say that person was not there(on break) to save your ass? We have all been in these situations and appreciate those moments.
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We haven’t all been in regular situations where someone not working our position has had to save our asses. That’s why you’re a sup…
 
The biggest problem with today's supes is that they aren't the logical progression (like any industry) of veteran employees--with a lot of experience desire to be leaders guiding and molding the next generation of controllers--who take the position and create growth. This is because there's no longer a real incentive for veterans to take a leadership position now.

Nowadays supes are just slaves to the trade with no trust or autonomy to excel and create real growth among the workforce. It's strictly an HR boondoggle and the ones who accept this reality are just shells (AKA shills) of the ATC/Government MACHINE. Not to mention, many don't have real world experience or tenure; if they hit the right keywords for the KSA AI, or check the correct biographical boxes they get it! Wuwu!

Instead, what we now have by and large are those who couldn't transfer within NCEPT without taking a supe bid. (NCEPT is a farce...I DO understand the supe application tactic, but it's still disingenuous, so fuck off). They get selected due to lack of real qualified applicants and they take their "better" locations with a "pay raise" and then just try to be a "boss" since they never had real leadership in their sights and/or possessed the qualities needed for it to begin with. Does it really make sense to have a brand new 29-year-old supe pacing behind a veteran controller (15+ years) who was working position when the supe was in junior high school, while the supe points out a couple birds or inquires about gear down constantly? "Put that memory aid up, yo!" "...Make sure he says the word 'runway' instead of just '27 left'..."

The FAA loves this because they can force these supes to follow a template of bureaucracy and it disincentivises them from performing true leadership and letting them have autonomy. All the lawyers who make the rules pretend they are saving lives while they authorize "experts" like they did with Fauci and insist we all accept the "expert" "opinions" of our "betters". Lots of people on this board went along with that bullshit. They're probably all supes now!
 
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