Shoot The Breeze

[AB19]

As a whole, I would say air traffic controllers have a higher aptitude than the average American in the workforce. That’s totally based on anecdotal evidence since I have no data to support that claim. But my point was pay comes down to scarcity of qualified applicants. There are less aerospace engineers than grocery store workers because you need more education and skills. Therefore, they get paid more.

I get the point you are making, but I'll ask the same thing I did above, when robots are cheaper what then?

 

[32andBelow]

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. Now here goes the part where you say "Oh but then companies will just exploit people and only pay them $1/hr." To which I would then respond, no one would work for $1 an hour, everyone would quit and find whatever job best suits them in terms of compensation. Labor is a valuable commodity that employers compete over too. They have to be able to offer enough so their workers are happy and don't quit and go work for the competition. However, you can't legislate higher wages. Businesses can't magically just pay more for labor than it's worth or they go out of business. If someone provides $12 per hour of production value to a company and the company compensates them $11 per hour, then it makes sense to employ them because the company gains value from employing said person. But if the government then raises the minimum wage to $15/hr, it no longer makes sense to employ them because the company would lose $3 and hour to employ them. Business owners are people too. They have to take all the risk, cover all the overhead, provide all the tools/equipment for you to do your job, comply with all the gov regulations and bullshit, and then at the end of it all they only make a profit if the business is successful. If the business has a bad month and your the employee, doesn't matter because you still get paid your wages but if your the employer, you have to eat the loss or maybe adjust your budget that month. Government interference in markets always does more harm than good because no one person actually knows what the price of labor should be and prices are fluid. It truly is supply and demand. Prices too high, demand is weakened and supply increases and vice versa with prices set too low. If anyone is unhappy at their jobs, their is nothing stopping them from quitting and getting a better one or better yet, going in to business for themselves. There is a reason they haven't quit yet and that's because their job current job is the best one they could get and that holds true whether you like it or not. Sorry about your feelings homie.

We've already been over this as to why college is so expensive. The government got involved. Also, way to dodge the other question. Why not go in to business yourself and pay everyone $20 an hour? Seriously, if it's so fucking easy, go ahead show me how it's done.

I’m saying people have already been paid this rates relative to inflation. The difference now is the owners and executives are paid way way way more

 

[Peter Gibbons]

As a whole, I would say air traffic controllers have a higher aptitude than the average American in the workforce. That’s totally based on anecdotal evidence since I have no data to support that claim. But my point was pay comes down to scarcity of qualified applicants. There are less aerospace engineers than grocery store workers because you need more education and skills. Therefore, they get paid more.

You must he working with different people than I have in my career, because I've honestly met like maybe 5 or 6 who strike me as more intelligent than average, and I don't think 3 years of progressive work experience or 4 years of school in literally any field is some super high bar to meet.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

I get the point you are making, but I'll ask the same thing I did above, when robots are cheaper what then?

Are you asking if I think controllers will get automated out by robots?

 

[Acquired Taste]

Going off your first point, when robots are cheaper than workers then what? Like all these minimum wages are pointless once we don't need human labor. Besides people overseas work for pennies, so people will absolutely work for that little if they have to? The all mighty economy is not what needs to be worried about, the world will not enter economic collapse because people get paid properly.

So go ahead and start a business and pay them properly. Also, you're so privileged to own a house, you should do your part to help the less fortunate who aren't as privileged and give them a room to stay in. Maybe some food to eat. Shit you probably have enough money to clothe them too! Since you're such a staunch believer in the what you preach, you should practice it and lead by example? Or would that be inconvenient? It's much easier to use the power of government to steal more of the rich man's money at gunpoint rather than actually do something yourself that would make you less comfortable. As for the robots, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. We are a far way off from AI replacing all human labor. I'm still waiting for all the truckers and fry cooks to be unemployed. One thing is for sure though, when government tries to force businesses to pay higher wages, it only speeds up the move towards automation as companies seek to cut costs which ends up hurting more of the humans the government intended to help. That's how these things work. Most laws are well intentioned but the "pros" never outweigh their unintended consequences.

 

[AB19]

Are you asking if I think controllers will get automated out by robots?

No more common unskilled labor jobs

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Are you asking if I think controllers will get automated out by robots?

No he's asking what's gonna happen to the entire service industry put economy is based on when a robot can do the jobs for no wages and there's no need for unskilled labor anymore.

And to answer that question, yes, and probably sooner than you think. Honestly I think there's maybe one generation of controllers who actually do more than monitor systems left,and that's mostly do to goverment system devleopment and implementation being super slow.

 

[AB19]

So go ahead and start a business and pay them properly. Also, you're so privileged to own a house, you should do your part to help the less fortunate who aren't as privileged and give them a room to stay in. Maybe some food to eat. Shit you probably have enough money to clothe them too! Since you're such a staunch believer in the what you preach, you should practice it and lead by example? Or would that be inconvenient? It's much easier to use the power of government to steal more of the rich man's money at gunpoint rather than actually do something yourself that would make you less comfortable. As for the robots, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. We are a far way off from AI replacing all human labor. I'm still waiting for all the truckers and fry cooks to be unemployed. One thing is for sure though, when government tries to force businesses to pay higher wages, it only speeds up the move towards automation as companies seek to cut costs which ends up hurting more of the humans the government intended to help. That's how these things work. Most laws are well intentioned but the "pros" never outweigh their unintended consequences.

You're acting like I don't do things that I preach? I'm glad you know what I do with my money in the off time or the causes I contribute to. Instead you sit here and don't offer solutions to questions I ask. Pretending that automated driving and robots that can already do the things you're talking about are far away is pointless. They will happen and your wants offer zero solutions. You think the government is so damn stupid with the things they work on yet you work for them and gladly take the money they pay you.

 

[Acquired Taste]

I’m saying people have already been paid this rates relative to inflation. The difference now is the owners and executives are paid way way way more

Perfect, so it should be really easy when you start your company to pay yourself and all the execs a little less and then you could probably pay all your workers at least $25/hr. Think of all the good middle class jobs you could provide! It's honestly a shame that there aren't as many businessmen out there with the same type of compassion you show or the world would be a much better place and the economy would thrive like you've never seen before!

 

[Shikaka]

Disney Parks Layoffs: A Complete Breakdown - Inside the Magic

A complete breakdown of the recent Walt Disney Company layoffs, including affected unions and which non-union employees were let go.

insidethemagic.net

Disney put 28,000 workers to the streets because they're "not making money"

Disney Parks Layoffs: A Complete Breakdown - Inside the Magic

A complete breakdown of the recent Walt Disney Company layoffs, including affected unions and which non-union employees were let go.

insidethemagic.net

Disney also awarded it's executives with $1.5 Billion in bonuses.

That's $53,571.43 per fired worker, of course the company should be seeking a profit...but this is defendable, literally the bonuses consisting of (liberally) the annual wages of 28,000 workers? Not to mention the Orlando workers they just shit canned.

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

No more common unskilled labor jobs

I think we’re well on our way. McDonald’s already has kiosks you can order from, stores have self checkouts all over the place, and factories are trending that way as well but can’t afford to implement those systems just yet. I don’t have a solution for that to be honest. I’ve been asked about automation in aviation a lot and I’m just hoping automated ATC and planes wait until my career is over because I know damn well autopilot flies a plane a lot better than me and I’m sure a robot controller could separate traffic better than me too.

 

[32andBelow]

Disney Parks Layoffs: A Complete Breakdown - Inside the Magic

A complete breakdown of the recent Walt Disney Company layoffs, including affected unions and which non-union employees were let go.

insidethemagic.net

Disney put 28,000 workers to the streets because they're "not making money"

Disney Parks Layoffs: A Complete Breakdown - Inside the Magic

A complete breakdown of the recent Walt Disney Company layoffs, including affected unions and which non-union employees were let go.

insidethemagic.net

Disney also awarded it's executives with $1.5 Billion in bonuses.

That's $53,571.43 per fired worker, of course the company should be seeking a profit...but this is defendable, literally the bonuses consisting of (liberally) the annual wages of 28,000 workers? Not to mention the Orlando workers they just shit canned.

This is exactly the shit I’m talking about. It’s a great idea to not regulate this crap. But it’s problem Time and time again business won’t do the right thing

I think we’re well on our way. McDonald’s already has kiosks you can order from, stores have self checkouts all over the place, and factories are trending that way as well but can’t afford to implement those systems just yet. I don’t have a solution for that to be honest. I’ve been asked about automation in aviation a lot and I’m just hoping automated ATC and planes wait until my career is over because I know damn well autopilot flies a plane a lot better than me and I’m sure a robot controller could separate traffic better than me too.

They can’t even roll out ERAM to the whole nas. You think they’re going to roll out full automation

 

[Shikaka]

Perfect, so it should be really easy when you start your company to pay yourself and all the execs a little less and then you could probably pay all your workers at least $25/hr. Think of all the good middle class jobs you could provide! It's honestly a shame that there aren't as many businessmen out there with the same type of compassion you show or the world would be a much better place and the economy would thrive like you've never seen before!

CEOs see pay grow 1,000% in the last 40 years, now make 278 times the average worker

In comparative terms, CEOs now make on average 278 times the average worker's salary, according to the Economic Policy Institute.

www.cnbc.com

I'm against too much government intervention, it's also undeniable that social programs are a benefit to society. Either way, there should be a system to balance the ethics and morality of business, not just the legality.

 

[AB19]

I think we’re well on our way. McDonald’s already has kiosks you can order from, stores have self checkouts all over the place, and factories are trending that way as well but can’t afford to implement those systems just yet. I don’t have a solution for that to be honest. I’ve been asked about automation in aviation a lot and I’m just hoping automated ATC and planes wait until my career is over because I know damn well autopilot flies a plane a lot better than me and I’m sure a robot controller could separate traffic better than me too.

I think by the end of my career we will be nearing or already switched to near autonomous controlling

 

[Acquired Taste]

CEOs see pay grow 1,000% in the last 40 years, now make 278 times the average worker

In comparative terms, CEOs now make on average 278 times the average worker's salary, according to the Economic Policy Institute.

www.cnbc.com

So go become a CEO. But be one of the ethical ones.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

So go ahead and start a business and pay them properly. Also, you're so privileged to own a house, you should do your part to help the less fortunate who aren't as privileged and give them a room to stay in. Maybe some food to eat. Shit you probably have enough money to clothe them too! Since you're such a staunch believer in the what you preach, you should practice it and lead by example? Or would that be inconvenient? It's much easier to use the power of government to steal more of the rich man's money at gunpoint rather than actually do something yourself that would make you less comfortable. As for the robots, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. We are a far way off from AI replacing all human labor. I'm still waiting for all the truckers and fry cooks to be unemployed. One thing is for sure though, when government tries to force businesses to pay higher wages, it only speeds up the move towards automation as companies seek to cut costs which ends up hurting more of the humans the government intended to help. That's how these things work. Most laws are well intentioned but the "pros" never outweigh their unintended consequences.

Where do you think all the manufacturing jobs went? Mexicans didn't take most of those jobs, robots did, the factories may be in Mexico because it's cheaper to do business there, but the labor is being done by machines.

And have you been to a grocery store recently? Or a fast food joint? I haven't used a cashier at Walmart or target in at least 6 months. You think a lot of other jobs are gonna disappear later rather than sooner, including yours?

And even if it is say... Decades away, shouldnt we be thinking about such an economically and socially impactful change now?

 

[AB19]

Perfect, so it should be really easy when you start your company to pay yourself and all the execs a little less and then you could probably pay all your workers at least $25/hr. Think of all the good middle class jobs you could provide! It's honestly a shame that there aren't as many businessmen out there with the same type of compassion you show or the world would be a much better place and the economy would thrive like you've never seen before!

Why should I feel bad for business that it doesn't work out for? You make this stupid as shit strawman saying well why don't you make the business and pay them HA owned you! Your take is so stupid that you unironically think the government shouldn't tax a few citizens to help out the rest. You don't care about your countrymen so why argue this?

 

[AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise]

They can’t even roll out ERAM to the whole nas. You think they’re going to roll out full automation

Not immediately, but ERAM already knows when two planes are on track to collide with one another, TCAS Alerts pilots when they’re on a Collison course with other aircraft, and autopilot can fly a full CAT III approach and even exit the runway. It’ll certainly happen in the future it’s just going to depend on the trust the general public has in the technology to do it.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

I think by the end of my career we will be nearing or already switched to near autonomous controlling

Hard agree. I got about 17 years left till I'm eligible and I would be pretty shocked if I wasn't offered a buyout to reduce staffing near the end of that period.

 

[AB19]

Hard agree. I got about 17 years left till I'm eligible and I would be pretty shocked if I wasn't offered a buyout to reduce staffing near the end of that period.

I have longer than you