Next ATC zero?

Ad1234 said:
I don’t really disagree with any of this. However how many small podunk facilities have a significant percentage of homesteaders? I bet it’s very few and a large percentage are trying to get out. Also, consistently those podunk facilities have very small if any on their ncept list.
If it was overwhelming that people were trying to get back home I’m with you and understand but it’s just not the reality. Plus those contract towers probably pay more than they would make in other professions in those podunk towns.

also, I’m not saying it would solve the staffing crisis, just relieve if a little. Also I did say the faa should continue to hire at same rate.

edit: I’ve said this on previous thread, based on the ncept, our membership overwhelmingly does chase the money, and at a minimum don’t mind “big city” living. So tell that to the membership that they should apply to those places, because based on the air travel market, those places won’t have much traffic anytime soon.
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Yeah I agree, the level 5 towers used to have the "homesteaders" make up at least have their populations but it is not close to that now. Most of those people retired and got back filled by academy grads, with tiny lists to pick from, lists dominated by level 5 and 6 up/downs or worse that they did not want to go to. So for now there are very few people at the small facilities actually from that small town.

Also if you follow the 804 process the few people in that situation can stay, they would just be working at a tower only now. If you then close the towers or contract them out that is another thing, but still, if the contract tower needed 7 people, that would easily be enough slots for the homesteaders.
 
FightingIrish2012 said:
Yeah I agree, the level 5 towers used to have the "homesteaders" make up at least have their populations but it is not close to that now. Most of those people retired and got back filled by academy grads, with tiny lists to pick from, lists dominated by level 5 and 6 up/downs or worse that they did not want to go to. So for now there are very few people at the small facilities actually from that small town.

Also if you follow the 804 process the few people in that situation can stay, they would just be working at a tower only now. If you then close the towers or contract them out that is another thing, but still, if the contract tower needed 7 people, that would easily be enough slots for the homesteaders.
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I’m fine with Tracons being combined. That makes sense. I’m against closing facilities altogether. The small facilities I was at at least half the people wanted to stay. And I know a shit load of people who were able to get out. If the FAA keeps stocking the small facilities the whole “get stuck” thing is kinda moot.

I think they need to fix some shit with NCEPT and put in a level cap, or my idea is to do two rounds of NCEPT where they select up within 3 levels first, and if there are still slots open fill them with the rest. Time in should also be considered more than it is. A lot of these new hires seem to very and get out in front of the line by knowing someone or bidding a hard to staff facility. Require a year certified or something. Lots of ways to fix staffing without reducing our options.
 
Mike Kilo said:
I’m fine with Tracons being combined. That makes sense. I’m against closing facilities altogether. The small facilities I was at at least half the people wanted to stay. And I know a shit load of people who were able to get out. If the FAA keeps stocking the small facilities the whole “get stuck” thing is kinda moot.

I think they need to fix some shit with NCEPT and put in a level cap, or my idea is to do two rounds of NCEPT where they select up within 3 levels first, and if there are still slots open fill them with the rest. Time in should also be considered more than it is. A lot of these new hires seem to very and get out in front of the line by knowing someone or bidding a hard to staff facility. Require a year certified or something. Lots of ways to fix staffing without reducing our options.
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I don't agree with all your points sir, but I would give my life fighting to the death to defend your right to say that NCEPT sucks dick.
 
FightingIrish2012 said:
I don't agree with all your points sir, but I would give my life fighting to the death to defend your right to say that NCEPT sucks dick.
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I’m curious, where do you want to go? And why haven’t you been able to get out of your current facility? Is it also your first?
 
Ad1234 said:
I’m curious, where do you want to go? And why haven’t you been able to get out of your current facility? Is it also your first?
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I got to where I needed to go but it was after years more then it should have been and it basically took a quantum fluctuation outside of NCEPT (no, not a hardship scam). If it wasn't for that though I would have left the agency by now as there was no serious hope to NCEPT out.
 
And APA to the list. Closing nightly from 10pm-6am and no longer allowing practice approaches due to covid. APA was never even allowed to go to 5/10 because they don't have pilot controlled lighting so it'll be interesting to see what fix they've come up with.

Edit: Also look out BJC, here they come!
 
To all the people who shit on natca for trying to limit the amount of people in facilities to slow covid down. Do you all still feel that way? Seems like as soon as we opened the doors to trainees and sent everyone back to BWS all hell has broken loose. I understand this all coincides with a surge all over the country but a lot of places dealt with major surges during the summer and never saw this happen. Not saying this is definitely the reason but it’s hard to deny the timing is interesting. Also not saying “fuck the trainees, stay at home” either. Just trying to figure out if they were on to something trying to limit the amount bodies in facilities at once.
 
CF said:
To all the people who shit on natca for trying to limit the amount of people in facilities to slow covid down. Do you all still feel that way? Seems like as soon as we opened the doors to trainees and sent everyone back to BWS all hell has broken loose. I understand this all coincides with a surge all over the country but a lot of places dealt with major surges during the summer and never saw this happen. Not saying this is definitely the reason but it’s hard to deny the timing is interesting. Also not saying “fuck the trainees, stay at home” either. Just trying to figure out if they were on to something trying to limit the amount bodies in facilities at once.
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The whole country is blowing up. We all came back in June where I am. We didn’t start taking hits due to COVID until recently. If you have 200 controllers in a center or 220 does it make that big of a difference statistically?
 
CF said:
To all the people who shit on natca for trying to limit the amount of people in facilities to slow covid down. Do you all still feel that way? Seems like as soon as we opened the doors to trainees and sent everyone back to BWS all hell has broken loose. I understand this all coincides with a surge all over the country but a lot of places dealt with major surges during the summer and never saw this happen. Not saying this is definitely the reason but it’s hard to deny the timing is interesting. Also not saying “fuck the trainees, stay at home” either. Just trying to figure out if they were on to something trying to limit the amount bodies in facilities at once.
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NATCA pushed us off of 5/5 back on to the BWS. Sign me up for the NATCA you're referencing
 
32andBelow said:
The whole country is blowing up. We all came back in June where I am. We didn’t start taking hits due to COVID until recently. If you have 200 controllers in a center or 220 does it make that big of a difference statistically?
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Several places in my area went back to BWS in June and have had minimal impact on covid cases from June to now with a little training happening. I don’t believe the trainees that were already in the facility caused an increase, but maybe some places it has.
 
CF said:
To all the people who shit on natca for trying to limit the amount of people in facilities to slow covid down. Do you all still feel that way? Seems like as soon as we opened the doors to trainees and sent everyone back to BWS all hell has broken loose. I understand this all coincides with a surge all over the country but a lot of places dealt with major surges during the summer and never saw this happen. Not saying this is definitely the reason but it’s hard to deny the timing is interesting. Also not saying “fuck the trainees, stay at home” either. Just trying to figure out if they were on to something trying to limit the amount bodies in facilities at once.
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I think that argument is a little flawed. Trainees didn't cause the entire nation to spike in COVID, and you would expect a proportional rise in ATC cases as well. I will agree that the timing sucks though, but if NATCA is going to stick with the Harvard plan I don't really see a problem.
 
Billybob said:
I think that argument is a little flawed. Trainees didn't cause the entire nation to spike in COVID, and you would expect a proportional rise in ATC cases as well. I will agree that the timing sucks though, but if NATCA is going to stick with the Harvard plan I don't really see a problem.
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The problem with the Harvard plan is it’s not attainable. The plan needs to change to you can come back when your vaccinated. It’ll be faster
 
CF said:
I personally don’t understand not wanting free money and all that but a lot of them seem to want to come to work and I’m trying to empathize with that.
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I can’t speak for everyone, but Assuming you took away the ongoing 8 month furlough some of us would be making $20,000 And realistically even $40,000 more. That’s life-changing money
 
AnyTrafficPleaseAdvise said:
I can’t speak for everyone, but Assuming you took away the ongoing 8 month furlough some of us would be making $20,000 And realistically even $40,000 more. That’s life-changing money
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Everyone is in a lose lose position. The amount of people who are concerned about raises equal the amount of people who don’t want to train because of COVID concerns equal the same amount of people who want to stay on 5/5 equal the same amount of people just trying to do as little work as possible whatever that means at their facility. No matter what decision anyone makes they will have different people complaining their representation or management is screwing them over.
 
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Ad1234 said:
Everyone is in a lose lose position. The amount of people who are concerned about raises equal the amount of people who don’t want to train because of COVID concerns equal the same amount of people who want to stay on 5/5 equal the same amount of people just trying to do as little work as possible whatever that means at their facility. No matter what decision anyone makes they will have different people complaining their representation or management is screwing them over.
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I totally understand that concern as well. Bringing back trainees would be a polar opposite move from what health officials recommend.
 
Ad1234 said:
Everyone is in a lose lose position. The amount of people who are concerned about raises equal the amount of people who don’t want to train because of COVID concerns equal the same amount of people who want to stay on 5/5 equal the same amount of people just trying to do as little work as possible whatever that means at their facility. No matter what decision anyone makes they will have different people complaining their representation or management is screwing them over.
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Wanting to work 5/5 after you had no training delays like this is not equal to those missing out on raises. Those genuinely concerned with COVID maybe, but from what I’ve seen that is very few.
 

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