Aircraft is VFR in traffic pattern and has an IFR filed to an airport with CFR or Ground Stop. Should we hold them until getting release time?

[FloopThePig]

I've always had the understanding that we don't deny the clearance when they are already airborne, but a few are arguing that there is a CFR and we still need a call for release.

I disagree and believe that we can't deny them that clearance once they are already airborne.

 

[GroundClutter]

I like that a few posters in this thread don't understand that cancelling IFR or VFR Following is a REQUEST that can be unabled

 

[Soul_Controller]

I've always had the understanding that we don't deny the clearance when they are already airborne, but a few are arguing that there is a CFR and we still need a call for release.

I disagree and believe that we can't deny them that clearance once they are already airborne.

It's easier to explain the concept on radar. If a guy pops up requesting IFR, coaltitude and a mile away from another IFR guy, would you approve the request and eat the deal?

 

[PooseMaGoose]

I couldn't find anything, that's why I'm asking. I just vaguely remember learning way back in CTI that pilots will sometimes avoid holding on the ground by departing VFR and picking up IFR in the air if their destination has a CFR.

In the past I've just issued the IFR, working departure, since they are already airborne. Should I be holding them and getting the CFR, and if the release is a long time like 30min+, should I hold them and just tell them they could go VFR if they'd like?

4-3-9 VFR RELEASE OF IFR DEPARTURE

When an aircraft which has filed an IFR flight plan requests a VFR departure through a terminal facility, FSS, ARTCC Flight Data Unit, or air/ground communications station:

a. After obtaining, if necessary, approval from the facility/sector responsible for issuing the IFR clearance, you may authorize an IFR flight planned aircraft to depart VFR. Inform the pilot of the proper frequency and, if appropriate, where or when to contact the facility responsible for issuing the clearance.
PHRASEOLOGY-
VFR DEPARTURE AUTHORIZED. CONTACT (facility) ON (frequency) AT (location or time if required) FOR CLEARANCE.
b. If the facility/sector responsible for issuing the clearance is unable to issue a clearance, inform the pilot, and suggest that the delay be taken on the ground. If the pilot insists upon taking off VFR and obtaining an IFR clearance in the air, inform the facility/sector holding the flight plan of the pilot's intentions and, if possible, the VFR departure time.

It doesn’t explicitly state that denying the clearance is an option but it directly implies so. A delay can be taken in the air awaiting an ifr clearance subject to any applicable CFRs or TMU initiatives. Definitely doesn’t read as if airborne VFRs are entitled to IFR clearances any more than aircraft taking the delay on the surface.

 

[GroundClutter]

4-3-9 VFR RELEASE OF IFR DEPARTURE

When an aircraft which has filed an IFR flight plan requests a VFR departure through a terminal facility, FSS, ARTCC Flight Data Unit, or air/ground communications station:

a. After obtaining, if necessary, approval from the facility/sector responsible for issuing the IFR clearance, you may authorize an IFR flight planned aircraft to depart VFR. Inform the pilot of the proper frequency and, if appropriate, where or when to contact the facility responsible for issuing the clearance.
PHRASEOLOGY-
VFR DEPARTURE AUTHORIZED. CONTACT (facility) ON (frequency) AT (location or time if required) FOR CLEARANCE.
b. If the facility/sector responsible for issuing the clearance is unable to issue a clearance, inform the pilot, and suggest that the delay be taken on the ground. If the pilot insists upon taking off VFR and obtaining an IFR clearance in the air, inform the facility/sector holding the flight plan of the pilot's intentions and, if possible, the VFR departure time.

It doesn’t explicitly state that denying the clearance is an option but it directly implies so. A delay can be taken in the air awaiting an ifr clearance subject to any applicable CFRs or TMU initiatives. Definitely doesn’t read as if airborne VFRs are entitled to IFR clearances any more than aircraft taking the delay on the surface.

Right they can launch VFR with either knowing there is flow or they may not be aware. Either way they can take the delay on the ground or in the air but it's not some golden ticket.

When this has happened I've called TMU to ask what we can work out. Normally they're told they can go at or below and altitude.

 

[accskp]

If you issue the clearance, then the CFR/Ground Stop then you are penalizing all of the aircraft that don't "game" the system.