The ERR process won't go anywhere because it cuts red tape and requires less resources than bids. That benefits the FAA and the union. Especially since the union has direct involvement via NCEPT.
But that also shows the negatives of collaboration. The union has more power now than in the old system, but now it shares ownership of all the problems NCEPT created.
Great post. This is probably the most detrimental in regards to abacus. I have no inside info but I feel like the only reason the union hasn’t sued the agency for 10 figures for defunding abacus 11 times is because it’s collaborative. And maybe because they’ve been overpaying the midwestern Zs for 10 years
Let's say someone has worked 5 years at a level 5. They are trying to get to KABC a level 7, but are only at 60% staffing...ie not really hope to get out.
Meanwhile KABC is open to training failures and new hires who will all be considered before a controller at an "understaffed" facility.
Let's say someone has worked 5 years at a level 5. They are trying to get to KABC a level 7, but are only at 60% staffing...ie not really hope to get out.
Meanwhile KABC is open to training failures and new hires who will all be considered before a controller at an "understaffed" facility.
To clarify: the new hires get forced to DLH part and then once DLH gets healthy they can release is what they’ve been doing for 9 years until this year.
So basically youre saying the difference would be no NRP? Freedom of movement regardless of staffing levels? I’m not trying to put words in your mouth.
It should be seniority based would be a big thing. I could see an argument for level caps when it comes to transferring too
I agree seniority to be a factor but it never gets off the ground cuz ain’t nobody wanna be trapped with SquawkHijack ‘s whiny ass 6 days a week just cuz he has seniority.
And you cant go even if you're the best candidate unless your facility can release you. Again a training failure could wash out of a center, certify at a 5, and be back at that center as a sup faster than someone who stays at zny can say I certified in the pit
And you cant go even if you're the best candidate unless your facility can release you. Again a training failure could wash out of a center, certify at a 5, and be back at that center as a sup faster than someone who stays at zny can say I certified in the pit
Have you guys tried telling your RVPs you want them to negotiate for more deviations?
Have you guys tried telling your RVPs you want them to negotiate for more deviations?
Considering how this method has worked out on the subject of pay raises, wtf is it supposed to do for us? Possibly the dumbest thing you could recommend if I’m being honest. When are you going to concede that the executive board of NATCA is a good ol’ boys club and doesn’t give a shit about us, yourself included?
Move78 said:
I agree seniority to be a factor but it never gets off the ground cuz ain’t nobody wanna be trapped with SquawkHijack‘s whiny ass 6 days a week just cuz he has seniority.
That gave me a chuckle, you thinking you know something about me lol. Don’t be late for your league softball game tho, what a beta male. 🤣
You goin on make believe feels or you got any data? FOIA the list. It’s huge, it’s not just 7 years ago.
Source- I’ve applied on numerous bids in the last couple years and have gotten one (1) interview from them all. And that was when our staffing was like 84.2% to target. Before then, CPCs were getting picked up left and right with absolute garbage staffing. You don’t need data to prove this per se. Why do you think everyone started considering the SSS, TMU and even the OS route to move?
They’ve definitely cut back big time on staffing deviations. I don’t need to FOIA some bullshit spreadsheet to prove that.
I’m just asking questions cuz it don’t take long to see that the controllers themselves don’t agree on shit
I think it's pretty clear - we want a process without a name that allows unlimited releases to wherever we want to go but also doesn't leave our facilities short staffed but we also don't want people to be able to go somewhere and transfer out again if they went to a spot I really wanted and we also want to stop approving deviations cuz it's hurting our staffing more but why the hell aren't they approving deviations any more this isn't fair at all and also all these jobs that we all want don't have pcs even though we're already applying for the jobs anyways. What's so hard about that you NATCA scum
Source- I’ve applied on numerous bids in the last couple years and have gotten one (1) interview from them all. And that was when our staffing was like 84.2% to target. Before then, CPCs were getting picked up left and right with absolute garbage staffing. You don’t need data to prove this per se. Why do you think everyone started considering the SSS, TMU and even the OS route to move?
They’ve definitely cut back big time on staffing deviations. I don’t need to FOIA some bullshit spreadsheet to prove that.
Well yes you do need data to prove a point on data. And it’s possible they have cut back. But there’s 2 points here. 1: you don’t know that you’re just assuming. 2: it’s possible you’re just not getting that soup job because you suck
32andBelow it was a real question. You guys are on a message board advocating for deviations. The message board doesn’t approve deviations. You should call your RVP
Well yes you do need data to prove a point on data. And it’s possible they have cut back. But there’s 2 points here. 1: you don’t know that you’re just assuming. 2: it’s possible you’re just not getting that soup job because you suck
Most aren’t even getting interviews now because their staffing sucks. You’re removed from consideration because they do not get staffing deviations anymore. You don’t need a whole spreadsheet precedent of data to prove that something conceptually isn’t happening, it’s called common sense.
Move78 said:
32andBelow it was a real question. You guys are on a message board advocating for deviations. The message board doesn’t approve deviations. You should call your RVP
Why? So they can hang up the phone and laugh because they don’t give a shit? How many “thank you sir may I have anothers” did you have to take to be blessed into the cult bro?
32andBelow it was a real question. You guys are on a message board advocating for deviations. The message board doesn’t approve deviations. You should call your RVP
You’re still not getting it. I don’t want deviations I wants to just be able to apply for jobs I qualify for and get picked by the manager if they manager wants to hire me. Like every other job on the planet.
I think it's pretty clear - we want a process without a name that allows unlimited releases to wherever we want to go but also doesn't leave our facilities short staffed but we also don't want people to be able to go somewhere and transfer out again if they went to a spot I really wanted and we also want to stop approving deviations cuz it's hurting our staffing more but why the hell aren't they approving deviations any more this isn't fair at all and also all these jobs that we all want don't have pcs even though we're already applying for the jobs anyways. What's so hard about that you NATCA scum
It’s not that anybody wants all of these things as this obviously isn’t a perfect world. But a lot of these serve as an example of what NATCA could attempt to negotiate for if they gave a shit.
The agency has sent so many people to where they don’t want go over the past 9 years that they don’t need PCS regardless of what you name the transfer process
Again, that is the part of the problem. The agency has failed so spectacularly that controllers are willing to pass on benefits they would have gotten 10 years ago. You have the air traffic union doing the agencies job of advocating for proper staffing and modern, functional equipment.
if you move as an ATCS, you should get some kind of PCS. Doesn’t have to be full, but if they need you enough to pick you up somewhere, they can chip in. More things controllers now carry on their backs.
You’re still not getting it. I don’t want deviations I wants to just be able to apply for jobs I qualify for and get picked by the manager if they manager wants to hire me. Like every other job on the planet.
Forget it, he can’t get past his programmed ideology of the release policy lol
Again, that is the part of the problem. The agency has failed so spectacularly that controllers are willing to pass on benefits they would have gotten 10 years ago. You have the air traffic union doing the agencies job of advocating for proper staffing and modern, functional equipment.
if you move as an ATCS, you should get some kind of PCS. Doesn’t have to be full, but if they need you enough to pick you up somewhere, they can chip in. More things controllers now carry on their backs.
This is exactly why we need just normal open applications like a normal job. That will force them to sweeten the offer for some places. Move money, term assignments, bonuses. We have zero leverage for anything at all with NCEPT
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