Only problem is that half the CPCs in Area A are not good enough controllers to certify in Area B. What are you going to do then? NEST? Not a chance.
We wash at least 50% of people in my area. We could send them across the hall and most would certify. No shame in that. It would help solve some of the staffing issues. But the higher ups won't let it happen.
And you know half the controllers in the other area aren't good enough to make it in your area based on what? And I hope it's more than just you and the rest of your areas own opinion lol.
And you know half the controllers in the other area aren't good enough to make it in your area based on what? And I hope it's more than just you and the rest of your areas own opinion lol.
We have 2 of the slowest areas in the entire NAS. 3 of our people transferred from those areas into ours and confirm how much more we do. They all say it's a joke. And those slower area CPCs know that they don't work nearly as hard as we do. There are absolutely CPCs in those slow areas that could do it on our area but there are definitely people that would not be able to.
This isn't a superiority complex thing. This is reality. There's a reason our area and the other high volume area are between 50-60% staffed and those slower areas are 80-90%+.
Mostly enroute airspace. All controllers there get dual approach and enroute rated. Which means their employees are also stuck at the level 8 pay the same way ZDV is stuck at level 10.
What software do they use, ERAM or STARS, does anyone know? Or maybe even ERAM for some sectors and STARS for others? They own SFC-UNL, I know that.
If it is all STARS do they have to change to 5-mile separation above FL230 or can they keep using 3?
Been on STARS since early 2021. Before that it was REHOST.
Separation requirements on STARS just goes off the datablock. If ISR is showing (increased separation requirement), 3 mile separation applies regardless of altitude. Question was brought up to the service area, and they never sent out any guidance.
Mostly enroute airspace. All controllers there get dual approach and enroute rated. Which means their employees are also stuck at the level 8 pay the same way ZDV is stuck at level 10.
Been on STARS since early 2021. Before that it was REHOST.
Separation requirements on STARS just goes off the datablock. If ISR is showing (increased separation requirement), 3 mile separation applies regardless of altitude. Question was brought up to the service area, and they never sent out any guidance.
REHOST was better. STARS is a garbage system for that airspace.
We have 2 of the slowest areas in the entire NAS. 3 of our people transferred from those areas into ours and confirm how much more we do. They all say it's a joke. And those slower area CPCs know that they don't work nearly as hard as we do. There are absolutely CPCs in those slow areas that could do it on our area but there are definitely people that would not be able to.
This isn't a superiority complex thing. This is reality. There's a reason our area and the other high volume area are between 50-60% staffed and those slower areas are 80-90%+.
Are you at ZOB? Because traffic count from the last year shows the “busiest” area of ZOB at #57 in the NAS…
You don't need different pay for different areas at a Z. Simply adjust the areas. If Area A and B are next to each other, but B is substantially more difficult than area A, then require the CPCs in A to certify on a small part of B. This reduced the difficulty/workload gap between A and B, and the overlap also allows for much more staffing flexibility if A is thicc and B is short (more difficult areas tend to have way more staffing issues at our Z).
God, I would love to be a fly on the wall for the first 6 months they try this and see it absolutely blow up.
The next sector over barely takes my hand offs as it is, even if I follow the LOA to a T.
Now you want them to get a cert and staff an additional sector, for the same amount of pay? Good fucking luck.
No idea. Someone at our facility printed out copies and left them around. When I get back in I’ll see if there’s a link or anything and I’ll post it here.
No idea. Someone at our facility printed out copies and left them around. When I get back in I’ll see if there’s a link or anything and I’ll post it here.
Behind the firewall. People should look up how busy their “busiest area in my center” compares to other facilities, at the same pay level or potentially lower.
Behind the firewall. People should look up how busy their “busiest area in my center” compares to other facilities, at the same pay level or potentially lower.
Just traffic counts are not a good way to compare difficulty though. Most "busy" areas have a very structured traffic flow that basically babysits traffic. I have found it is typically the areas that have decent traffic numbers but not enough to have a bunch of forced structure that will be actually some of the most difficult to work. Just like purely looking at washout rates isn't a perfect indicator of how difficult somewhere is. There are a lot of slower places with higher wash rates because they have a bitter and angry workforce and not enough traffic to have consistently good training.
Just traffic counts are not a good way to compare difficulty though. Most "busy" areas have a very structured traffic flow that basically babysits traffic. I have found it is typically the areas that have decent traffic numbers but not enough to have a bunch of forced structure that will be actually some of the most difficult to work. Just like purely looking at washout rates isn't a perfect indicator of how difficult somewhere is. There are a lot of slower places with higher wash rates because they have a bitter and angry workforce and not enough traffic to have consistently good training.
I was just responding to other people. I wasn’t speaking on complexity.
How do you know most busy areas are structured to only babysitting traffic? What’s your experience that gives you this perspective ?
ATM was smart and figured out a way to get a small cutout of bravo on the weekends only. That’s the story I’ve heard.
This is exactly right. It’s the reason there are busier and more complex VFR towers that aren’t at their TCI. I say good for them but also kinda bullshit for the towers who can’t take advantage of that loophole.
Question. My tower just got upgraded yesterday. How long did it take for you guys to get the pay raise? And how long for back pay? We have quite a few months back pay with tons of OT involved so it’s going to be a big chunk of money!
Folks at my facility started getting SF50s this week. I just checked Employee Express and the raise and back pay are both in there. Kinda surprised, HR actually putting in work.
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