Facility Downgrades / Upgrades

I mean, I get that but ZJX is ranked number 3 when you look at raw total annual traffic. However the agency and NATCA choose to digest the data and data interpret it to an upgrade is what it is, but I guess we’ll wait for ABACUS to conclude.

And I toured LAS and L30 in 2023 and both their facrep(s) and several sups had said they had been above the buffer. Not pointing fingers but there’s conflicting info about them then.
It’s possible the local facility, which sees their raw count, heard about the raw count being above the buffer. The later “validated” count lets the agency knock it down just enough to keep them from an upgrade. Rumor is that what was done at GFK for years because the agency didn’t want a level 10 GA tower
 
Does it really take a whole TCI panel to see that 2 11’s, a 9, 2 5’s and whatever satellites PHL has would become a 12 when combined into one facility? This just shortened the time for back pay.
Yeah it does. PHL was below an 11 numbers for almost a year before this and the gap is absolutely massive.
 
It’s possible the local facility, which sees their raw count, heard about the raw count being above the buffer. The later “validated” count lets the agency knock it down just enough to keep them from an upgrade. Rumor is that what was done at GFK for years because the agency didn’t want a level 10 GA tower
I think it's really just that people get confused by the terminology. "In the buffer" sounds cool when your count is going up but is meaningless for upgrades. The buffer only has meaning to facilities with a traffic count that's going down. If you fall below the breakpoint, but are still in the buffer (within 10 percent of the breakpoint), you won't get downgraded. Saying you are in the buffer means you are working 90 percent of the traffic required for an upgrade. Like I said, cool to say, but still not enough for an upgrade.

For an upgrade you need to go over the breakpoint and sustain it for a few months. There are some other caveats but honestly upgrades are super straight forward. If you're a terminal facility that didn't get an upgrade it's because you didn't have the numbers for an upgrade.
 
It’s possible the local facility, which sees their raw count, heard about the raw count being above the buffer.
There are no buffers for raw traffic counts.
The later “validated” count lets the agency knock it down just enough to keep them from an upgrade.
If your TCI warrants an upgrade and you fail the validation (performed by both NATCA and FAA) it’s because you’re lying on the manual count
Rumor is that what was done at GFK for years because the agency didn’t want a level 10 GA tower
This is untrue

EWR area is a 12 on its own, let alone combined with PHL
Areas don’t have TCIs, you don’t know this to be true.

Which sees their raw count < “sewing circle rumors from the locals” lol
All of this information is available in writing. All of you lazy tards have no idea what you’re talking about
 
There are no buffers for raw traffic counts.
Look, I was making an inference about ZJX needing to be upgraded, okay? Is that what you need to hear to quit being a TCI snob? Can I not draw an obvious conclusion and say that they [ZJX] need upgraded when they work more traffic in general than ZAU, ZID, ZFW? All 12’s. And I don’t think there’s any arguing that ZJX is definitely more complex than they are.

I know you and I agree that ZJX is getting screwed, but god damn. This is a forum. Can someone not make a casual statement on here without you being “that guy?” The TCI screws us over, we know that, now let people generalize and move on.
 
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Look, I was making an inference about ZJX needing to be upgraded, okay? Is that what you need to hear to quit being a TCI snob? Can I not draw an obvious conclusion and say that they [ZJX] need upgraded when they work more traffic in general than ZAU, ZID, ZFW? All 12’s. And I don’t think there’s any arguing that ZJX is definitely more complex than they are.

I know you and I agree that ZJX is getting screwed, but god damn. This is a forum. Can someone not make a casual statement on here without you being “that guy?” The TCI screws us over, we know that, now let people generalize and move on.
Just stop posting make believe bullshit and I won’t have to correct you constantly. Instead of getting defensive about snobbery you should look in the mirror and be like ‘damn I’m wrong about fucking everything maybe I should read the answer key before I talk’
 
Just stop posting make believe bullshit and I won’t have to correct you constantly. Instead of getting defensive about snobbery you should look in the mirror and be like ‘damn I’m wrong about fucking everything maybe I should read the answer key before I talk’
What is make believe about what I just said reference ZJX? I gotta hear this one lmao.

You’re not correcting anything. You’re just making yourself look like an asshat that always has to seem right about everything.

We’re sitting here talking about how facilities deserve to be upgraded because of plain-Jane data and facts, you’re over here defending the agency’s crooked TCI and calling people wrong for not agreeing with it when clearly there are other more accurate metrics to be used for this topic. This is not the flex you think it is, bud.
 
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Yeah no shit. Just saying it's kind of fucked that PHL Area A and Area B controllers get a pay bump from 11 to 12 for literally zero extra work compared to what they were doing before, when 804'd places have the towers drop a level or two and the gaining radar facility do more work for no pay increase. Spin it however you want but the upshot is, yet again, an East Coast facility getting benefits that other facilities don't.
 
Yeah no shit. Just saying it's kind of fucked that PHL Area A and Area B controllers get a pay bump from 11 to 12 for literally zero extra work compared to what they were doing before, when 804'd places have the towers drop a level or two and the gaining radar facility do more work for no pay increase. Spin it however you want but the upshot is, yet again, an East Coast facility getting benefits that other facilities don't.
Do you hate all the centers too?
 
Good for those facs! LAS & L30 should join them from 11 to 12, I believe they’ve both been over the threshold for some time. Among ZJX and a few others in the same boat.
For what it’s worth, L30 isn’t close at all to the level 12 minimum for TRACONs with the TCI. LAS though is hovering around a 455 on the TCI with the level 12 min being a 465. I think they are the closest to a 12 for towers (didn’t check everyone though) but they aren’t there yet.

ZJX and ZMA 100% should be 12’s. I don’t know anyone that disagrees with that but it’s just until they finally sort out ABACUS, they’re both screwed.
 
What is make believe about what I just said reference ZJX? I gotta hear this one lmao.

You’re not correcting anything. You’re just making yourself look like an asshat that always has to seem right about everything.

We’re sitting here talking about how facilities deserve to be upgraded because of plain-Jane data and facts, you’re over here defending the agency’s crooked TCI and calling people wrong for not agreeing with it when clearly there are other more accurate metrics to be used for this topic. This is not the flex you think it is, bud.
Jesus go back and read your own posts. This whole post makes no sense. Your previous posts that I replied to were fakenewssad. It has nothing to do with you. You’re just a retard on the internet pretending that you know what you’re talking about.
It’s a service to the other retards on the internet that might read your retard and then spread the tard to the tards they work with and then all the tards circle round and squawk at clouds
 
You’re just a retard on the internet pretending that you know what you’re talking about.
What was that you were saying earlier about looking in a mirror?

Also what took you so long to reply? Were you too busy away from your TCI manual arguing with an OS that they can’t deny your leave because technically you have all your ELMs and work to be completed done per the HRPM like a good little boy?

We’ve all been in here all day being wrong about everything man c’mon, you gotta do better than this!
 
I've told people for close to 2 decades that the only real job path any new hire should consider is enroute, especially now that the facility assignment issue has been mostly resolved. Or aim for one of the level 12 tracons, but even that may not be possible depending on the terminal facility you are assigned to.

Messing with a 300 person Z is much more complicated logistically, politically, and is going to cause a lot more blowback than downgrading 30 smaller terminal facilities that have no pull. That goes double if the facility is anywhere near the east coast.
 
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