Has the N.T.I. worked?

[Bandit117]

Pretty straightforward. Has the N.T.I. worked? I’m not sure what the original goals of the initiative were to begin with but have we seen measurable results?

Not really. Training as much as possible dossnt produce well rounded controllers at mid and lower level facilities. A lot of light, not difficult sessions and running out of hours doesn’t produce a quality controller.

The alternative of some places taking 3,4,5 years is the opposite end of the spectrum, but there has to be a reasonable middle ground, to not train too much when it’s dead, as it often is at lower and mid level facilities

 

[32andBelow]

Not really. Training as much as possible dossnt produce well rounded controllers at mid and lower level facilities. A lot of light, not difficult sessions and running out of hours doesn’t produce a quality controller.

The alternative of some places taking 3,4,5 years is the opposite end of the spectrum, but there has to be a reasonable middle ground, to not train too much when it’s dead, as it often is at lower and mid level facilities

Yah you need to give more hours then. Don’t just have folks jerking off waiting for your one fly in of the year. Busy traffic overrated anyways. Yah you need to see it and prove you can do it but people who aren’t good stumble over the mechanics of simple stuff.

 

[ManBearPig]

Yah you need to give more hours then. Don’t just have folks jerking off waiting for your one fly in of the year. Busy traffic overrated anyways. Yah you need to see it and prove you can do it but people who aren’t good stumble over the mechanics of simple stuff.

100% false.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

The alternative of some places taking 3,4,5 years is the opposite end of the spectrum, but there has to be a reasonable middle ground, to not train too much when it’s dead, as it often is at lower and mid level facilities

Fuck it, if they train on low traffic checks them out on that and let them gain experience over the busy season. Santa is against this, another reason why he is fucked up.

The old school thinking was some low level shitholes places taking 3-4 years to certify to “see the busy traffic” as you said. Philosophy on that changed a lot, there are a lot fewer places like that now, the people who used to promote that are mostly all retired now, and hopefully dead.

But it was an issue for decades. Young controller going through that then treating the next generation of trainees like that because “it was that way for us”. Idiots and pussies. Exactly the same as a father who beats the shit out of his baby then gets arrested and says that he had no choice because his father abused him lol.

Happy that around 2016-2017 that generation of new trainers finally said fuck that shit and in general, broke the culture. Also 804ing some of those shitholes helped eradicate this behavior too.

 

[32andBelow]

100% false.

How’s it false? Good luck teaching a technique or situation when it’s so busy the frisbee has to key up all the time.

 

[Termine]

My facility has a computer monitor that tells you traffic in 15 min increment blocks and are color coded, green, yellow and red.

Good luck with that at a VFR-heavy facility. Maybe you have a flight school which has set start times, but maybe not. For the most part, traffic comes when it comes and you don't have much if any advance notice.

My facility did raise the hours by quite a bit because of the NTI. I think min hours stayed the same or nearly so, max hours increased by around 50% as others said. And extensions are very easy to come by.

I.e. 15 hours/week requirement.

Manglement's new kick here is that the 15/wk requirement applies to ALL trainees regardless of whether they're PQ'd on other positions and need to get currency. Also it is a requirement, not just a goal. Apparently they're getting tired of filling out the impediments report, so the solution is to get everyone 15 hours and then they don't have to fill it out.

 

[the inquirer]

My facility has a computer monitor that tells you traffic in 15 min increment blocks and are color coded, green, yellow and red. Some blocks are 2 arrvials and others are 20. Same concept for departures.

To "sign on and die on" and not pay attention to these blocks and plan training accordingly, absolutely wastes training hours.

You’re at a center. Most flights are ifr so it is easily calculated. Go to approach, and you’ll realize they work harder than you do. 8 vfrs call you up for flight following within a matter of minutes and half of them want practice approaches with published missed. Ask me how I know.

 

[32andBelow]

You’re at a center. Most flights are ifr so it is easily calculated. Go to approach, and you’ll realize they work harder than you do. 8 vfrs call you up for flight following within a matter of minutes and half of them want practice approaches with published missed. Ask me how I know.

You don’t think centers get flight following and pop ups?

 

[slater]

You’re at a center. Most flights are ifr so it is easily calculated. Go to approach, and you’ll realize they work harder than you do. 8 vfrs call you up for flight following within a matter of minutes and half of them want practice approaches with published missed. Ask me how I know.

I am not at a center. I'm at an up down on the east coast. It doesnt account for VFR pop-ups etc. Just IFR arrivals and departures.

 

[Sir_Unable]

You don’t think centers get flight following and pop ups?

Someday they’ll realize the world does not stop at the 40DME

 

[badtowel67]

They absolutely right away adjusted the hours where I work. Sounds like your facility has a problem to fix.

My previous district would not approve training orders that increased training hours to help with the NTI requirements. If a facility submitted an updated training order with increased hours, it had to be justified by reasons other than the NTI.

They adamantly stand by the TRB process honoring more hours if the training reports document a lack of adequate traffic–even though we all know that isn't always the case.

 

[ncssailor]

My previous district would not approve training orders that increased training hours to help with the NTI requirements. If a facility submitted an updated training order with increased hours, it had to be justified by reasons other than the NTI.

They adamantly stand by the TRB process honoring more hours if the training reports document a lack of adequate traffic–even though we all know that isn't always the case.

Sounds like a district problem, we all
Know FAA leadership can vary from one state to the next and its mostly not good at best.

 

[GulfCharlie]

Sounds like a district problem, we all
Know FAA leadership can vary from one state to the next and its mostly not good at best.

I remember when the position of General Manager was created, it is a joke...

 

[Spoony90]

I remember when the position of General Manager was created, it is a joke...

Any management… even at the lowest level is a joke

 

[ncssailor]

Any management… even at the lowest level is a joke

Literally one person can be manger, supervisor, payroll person. So much wasted money and time on BS telcons and oversight.

 

[GulfCharlie]

Literally one person can be manger, supervisor, payroll person. So much wasted money and time on BS telcons and oversight.

Well these SUPCOM's are not going to do themselves, might as well put myself on credit for the backend of the shift because I do not want to go home... Opps have to take a boondoggle to OKC for Sup stuff and stare at you through the window while you are at RTF... (Some level 7 sup probably)

 

[32andBelow]

Someday they’ll realize the world does not stop at the 40DME

Oh they know cus they are too lazy to put the flight plan in then they do a manual handoff and we have to.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

It's almost like creating a national policy on training that covers every facility from VFR tower only to center in a variety of regions and seasonal schedules doesn't work. Who would have ever guessed that?

Just like at an individual facility if there is an issue address it with that person specifically and don't make a new policy for everyone. If they were so concerned about training times and people "waiting to see the busy" traffic they should have addressed those facilities individually instead of make the NTI.

 

[the inquirer]

Oh they know cus they are too lazy to put the flight plan in then they do a manual handoff and we have to.

I once thought this as well. Until I transferred to a tracon. Center has so much more power and tools to do things like this. Day and night difference. Don’t hate, just appreciate what you got.

 

[32andBelow]

I once thought this as well. Until I transferred to a tracon. Center has so much more power and tools to do things like this. Day and night difference. Don’t hate, just appreciate what you got.

I don’t hate but I will clap back when they make stupid comments about center lol